Posted on 06/19/2008 1:44:33 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch
Purchasers of hybrid vehicles, which are subsidized by the federal government and championed by environmental activists as a way to reduce gasoline consumption, are trading in their vehicles because of health fears concerning electromagnetic fields created by the hybrid batteries, says John Dale Dunn, a policy advisor for the American Council on Science and Health.
As noted in an April 27 article in the New York Times:
Some hybrid vehicle owners are complaining of a variety of health problems allegedly caused by strong electromagnetic currents from the cars' batteries. Reported ailments and concerns include rising blood pressure, drowsiness behind the wheel and higher leukemia risks. Various agencies, including the National Institutes of Health and the National Cancer Institute, acknowledge the potential hazards of long-term exposure to a strong electromagnetic field (E.M.F.), and have done studies on the association of cancer risks with living near high-voltage utility lines. Drivers who have given up their hybrids have reportedly documented "dangerously high" electromagnetic fields, leading them to conclude driving the vehicles is not worth risking blood for oil. This issue illustrates the double standard regarding environmental activists, says H. Sterling Burnett, a senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis.
"Environmental activists routinely use the Precautionary Principle as a weapon against technologies and products they do not like," Burnett explains. "They assert that until and unless a product they oppose can be definitively proven to be safe, the product must be banned. Now, however, when consumers and some scientists assert that one of the activists' pet products may be causing serious health harms, the activists act like they have never heard of the Precautionary Principle."
Source: John Dale Dunn, "Hybrid Vehicle Owners Report Adverse Health Effects," Heartland Institute, July 1, 2008; and Jim Motavalli, "Fear, but Few Facts, on Hybrid Risk," New York Times, April 27, 2008.
For text:
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=23393
For Times text:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/automobiles/27EMF.html
For more on Environment Issues:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_Category=31
Everybody must get paid. Anytime there is a problem, somebody didn’t get paid. Them’s the rules.
ping
Problem is that ‘some’ people wanna get paid for nothin’. We all get paid, but it’s normally earned....
“Comparing a 200-volt DC system with High-voltage AC transmission lines (500,000v) requires a very advanced degree in stupid...”
So where did you get your degree?
That’s a problem that begins in gradeschool in our modern Gummint schools. In older cultures everybody knows they have to fulfill their side of the deal if they want to get paid. It’s Biblical, Moses and all. Probably Vedic, too.
The 2005 article simply says that EMS units are getting trained to handle the new technology, and that the car can be running without the engine running.
Again, it says nothing about EMS people being wary of using the jaws of life around a hybrid. And again, they would only be so if they had not received training, because there is no chance of electric discharge prying open the doors of a Prius.
Possibly not. On my last tank of gas, my mileage was 51.1 mpg. But I don’t usually get over 50.
“Even if the battery was somehow shorted to the car, it wouldn’t be grounded, and there would be no danger.”
We’ll need a big tombstone for that epitaph, but people will get a kick out of it.
“Direct current, the type produced by batteries, does not produce EMF”
Maxwell will be shocked to learn this. Pun intended.
EMF is produced by electricity, DC or AC. The “electric field” is related to the voltage, the “magnetic field” is related to current - thus the term “electromagnetic field”, or EMF.
I guess that would be the tombstone of every man who ever worked on high voltage lines, who apparently were all electricuted when they touched the lines......
Again, even if you attached one side of a 250-volt battery to the metal frame of the car, you would not be shocked if you touched it while standing on the ground.
Only if one wire touched the metal, and the other side somehow came in contact with the ground, would you have a danger of a shock.
Of course, if the car was that damaged, it is likely the air bags deployed, in which case the battery would be disconnected, so unless the battery back itself had fallen apart and formed a circuit with the metal frame and ground, there would be no danger.
The danger is in using water to put out a fire, and the danger of trying to ensure the car is really off so it doesn’t drive off. And if the car is severely damaged, there is of course the possibility the orange power wire could be cut and sitting where you might accidentally touch both wires (although again if the wire was cut the control circutry should have disconnected the battery).
There are also some capacitive discharge issues in the engine compartment, but they are more likely to give you a shock than kill you, unless you get very unlucky.
NONE of these cases would be a shock hazard using the jaws of life to pry open a door or the roof. The only danger is if you are trying to cut through the car from the bottom, and then you would have to watch for the orange wire so you didn’t cut through it.
As I said in my first post, there is training that EMS goes through. The idea that EMS people are afraid to work on hybrids could only be true if they hadn’t been trained yet.
“AC power lines are at 60 Hz which is a pretty damn long wavelength...I tend to look at this something like MRI equipment. Very damn powerful electromagnets but no harm (as yet determined) to human tissue.”
AC lines produce magnetic fields, which are more of a concern, depending on who you listen to. There are as yet no federal standards for magnetic fields at powerline frequencies.
But thank you for bringing some actual facts to the thread!
There is no EMF produced by a DC current, or voltage. AC produces EMF. Try sending a radio signal using DC and see how far it gets. AC is used, and digital, to send radio signals(TV,etc), not DC, since DC does not produce an EMF. Also, the way to produce electricity is by running a magnetic field across wires, the field must fluctuate to produce the electricity, and the opposite is true for producing radio waves. Spin it how you will, DC does not produce radio waves(EMF).
“Only if one wire touched the metal, and the other side somehow came in contact with the ground, would you have a danger of a shock.”
The batteries would explode and burn you way before you got a shock that way. Nonetheless, there is still a shock hazard - if you touch the live feed and then another part of the car, you’ll get zapped. It’s actually quite a serious matter.
“Spin it how you will, DC does not produce radio waves(EMF).”
EMF includes DC to light, my friend - not just radio waves.
Every kid who ever built an “electromagnet” for the science fair can explain it to you. Maybe you should ask one, if you don’t believe me.
this cracked me up
Of course they do, but they are very slowly varying, almost static, magnetic fields. They don't propagate, except during transients, like when you give 'er the juice, or back off on the 'juice. Then you get and "E" component as well as an "M" component. But you probably would get more EM exposure from the alternator on your gas or diesel engine.
Whoever wrote this certainly has never heard of Maxwell's Equations, or at least never understood them.
“Whoever wrote this certainly has never heard of Maxwell’s Equations, or at least never understood them.”
Amen brother. I’ve used them for over 25 years and I would never claim to completely understand them.
“Batteries don’t create EM fields...”
That had me laughing as well.
I knew someone else would mention it, so I was patient.
Good job.
: )
Once again, you cannot touch the metal and the live feed while using the jaws of life to open the car door.
But certainly, if there were two exposed wires, and you touched the metal with one hand, and the exposed wire with your other hand, you could be in for a nasty shock.
If you are wet, and you touch the car frame with one hand, and grab the 12v line with the other, you can get a nasty shock, and even catch things on fire.
I think they are trained not to be grabbing wires with their bare hands.
We aren’t talking about thousands of volts here. Any standard non-conducting gloves worn by emergency crews will work on the 250volt battery in the new prius, and even on the 350-volt battery in the old prius.
Anyway, the original point was that EMS workers were afraid to rescue people from hybrids, and in fact there is essentially no danger and trained EMS people are not hesitating.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.