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That’s right, change the subject. Use the old uber litmus test to see if I’m a good little Republican.

I don't want you to be a good little Republican. I want you to be an annoying, angry conservative who's active within the party and a continuous thorn in the side of your local leaders. If more of us were, things would start to change. The problem is, too many of us are just keyboard commandos.

That MUST change if the conservative movement is to flex its muscles again.

Look, let's say your motives are pure and your suggestion is well meaning. You are dreaming if you think Conservatism grows under a McCain Presidency. I don't care how many grass roots people stand up and attempt to take the party back, the man at the top wields more power. Do you think the grass roots is going to rule, or the winning track record of John McCain will? Here's what I mean by that.

While you're trying to convince the party players that Conservatism is the way to go, John McCain the consumate leftist will have already proven what it takes to get elected today in the U.S.A. Who is going to listen to you, and why? The RNC will fall in line behind everything McCain wants. Our Congress members will fall in line because they want access to the White House and the realization of quid pro quo. McCain will bludgeon the state party leaders to fall in line with his dogma. And here on this forum, you'll have the idolitors and groupies doing their thing, defending every move McCain makes. Right now you're defending McCain. What makes you think it will be any different after the election? Folks will find reasons to defend "our guy" because he's "our guy". "Oh, he did that. Well that makes sense. Can you imagine if the Demcrats had done it? It would be ever so much more worse. I fully support McCain." You've seen this over and over. How are you going to like it when McCain turns half this forum into lap dogs?

Where do you expect to fit in with this? Is this the environment that you think will cause a rebirth, when half or more of the grass roots of what was known as Conservatism is supporting a consumate leftist?

If McCain loses, the party needs you. If he wins you'll be the fifteenth tit that the party just doesn't need. It's as simple as that IMO. Good luck.

Don't forget that there are at least three types of advocacies going on here. The first is predominant, telling us to vote for something awful because we'll get worse under an Obama presidency. There's a lot of that on every thread.

But the second bunch of McCain people actually agree with him. They are the former Giuliani people and wideawakes who we argued and fought with last year. They are liberals who transferred their loyalty to McCain.

Another McCain voting bloc is the foreign policy conservatives, who favor the war. Many of them will give him the benefit of the doubt because he was a POW and military man.

Without defining conservatism, we can't hope to rebuild our coalition. Let those who want to vote for him do so. McCain isn't a conservative, and isn't much of a Republican. But there are people who just vote the “R,” for whatever reason. God bless them.

Right now you're defending McCain.

I'm not defending McCain. I'm not even 100% sure I'm going to vote for the guy myself--I'm waiting to see who he picks as his VP. That should tell us a lot.

But what I absolutely won't do is waste my time trying to convince othters not to vote for McCain. That energy is much better spent electing conservatives downticket.