Posted on 06/12/2008 3:10:54 PM PDT by Oyarsa
No word of how he got it-Team Barry isn't actually leaking to dKos, is it?-and naturally he misunderstands Jim Geraghty's point about Obama's place of birth, which would have been relevant not with respect to his "Americanness" but whether he was constitutionally qualified to run as a natural-born citizen. But here it is.
Update: Not that it matters for purposes of addressing Geraghty's concerns, but Flip notes that the posted document is a certification of birth, which is slightly different from a birth certificate.
Not even close. This needs to stop, it makes FR posters look like idiots, we need to stop beating this dead horse.
***What state was mccain born in??***
Confusion?
I was born in 1961.
Still have my original birth certificate with my tiny little foot prints on it. Awe.
Not so, read the requirements.
Hawaii states that Birth Certificates can ONLY be made available to the following individuals:
Person Named on the Certificate
Mother/Father (or Legal Guardian)
Legal Representative of an Authorized Person
Individuals with a legitimate and legal reason to search for genealogical purposes
Birth Certificates MAY also be released to the following, IF we are provided with the documentation proving one of the relationships specified below:
Husband/Wife of Person Named on Certificate
Son/Daughter of Person Named on Certificate
It looks like it is pretty much a Fraud.
It looks like it is pretty much a Fraud.
Sorry, it wasn’t for my wife. We got it last week.
He was born in the Canal Zone of US parents. Yes he is considered eligible for the presidency since his father was in the US military and McCain was born at a military installation...just like me.
It should be remembered that Barack Hussein Obama thinks babies born alive after botched abortions do not deserve birth certificates. It’s perfectly OK to kill them. He doubtless wouldn’t even want them to get death certificates, because that would be an acknowledgment that they were once living human beings.
The fact that appears to be stamped “JUN 6 2007” on the reverse does not help matters any.
If you requested a copy of your birth certificate and it was processed tomorrow, your copy would be stamped JUN 13, 2008.
You can't get the original copy of your birth certificate, it was filed with the state and will stay there. Any subsequent copy of the birth certificate is going to be issued in the format of choice at the time. Once, that was a photostat (identifiable as a reverse image, recognizable as white printing on a black background). Then, it was a xerographic copy -- duly certified. Now it is a computer-generated piece of paper.
Africa is a continent, and it has many races and many nations.
Bogus document by someone that doesn’t know better.
If you were working at a registry office in Honolulu in 1961, how much would you know?
Say a child is born who's mother is Japanese and father is Filipino. What do you write? Asian and Asian for the parents? Or Japanese and Filipino? The Hawaiian usage might have been the latter.
This was before the federal government came up with its racial categories, so what you would write might be up to you or to a boss who didn't know much more about today's racial categories than you did or to the parents who don't know either.
In Hawaii, Chinese, Japanese, Filipinos, Samoans, and Hawaiians didn't lump themselves together in those days.
If you don't know that many Blacks or Negroes and are confused about what the right term is and a woman writes down that her husband's race is "African" maybe you'd just take her word for it.
Obviously this is a modern copy. Not an original document. You might find the original information in a big register book, rather than in some piece of paper you can get from the city or state today.
But if the racial categories don't make sense to us or the business of racial categorization is offensive to us, that doesn't in itself mean anything else is fake about it.
re: my postst above, *I* am the idiot. The statute that applies reads: 8 § 1405. Persons born in Hawaii
How Current is This?
A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.
I'm looking at mine and my birth certificate is titled "Certificate of Birth". They're one and the same.
-PJ
Someone get Buckhead on the phone.
I am sorry but they're not the same. a "Certification of Birth" is a trimmed down version of "Certificate of Birth".
Hawaii Statues:
338-11 Form of certificates
338-12 Evidentiary character of certificates
338-13 Certified copies
338-14 Fees for certified copies and searches; transcripts or
other statistical summaries of vital records for
National Center for Health Statistics; certified
copies for veterans and others; and corrections on
vital statistics certificates
338-14.3 Verification in lieu of a certified copy
338-14.5 Copies of certificate; fees
338-14.6 Vital statistics improvement special fund
338-15 Late or altered certificates
338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth
certificates
338-17 Late or altered certificate as evidence
338-17.5 Judicial procedure to establish facts of birth
338-17.7 Establishment of new certificates of birth, when
338-17.8 Certificates for children born out of State
338-18 Disclosure of records
(1) The alleged father is:
(A) The husband of the mother; or
(B) The acknowledged father of the child; or
(2) The father and child relationship has been established under chapter 584. Data pertaining to the alleged father acknowledging paternity of the child is admissible as evidence of paternity in any family court proceeding, including proceedings under chapter 584. [L 1949, c 327, §16; RL 1955, §57-15; HRS §338-12; am L 1975, c 66, §2(2); am L 1994, c 23, §1]
§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]
§338-15 Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may file or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §19; RL 1955, §57-18; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-15; am L 1972, c 66, §1(1); am L 1997, c 305, §2]
Attorney General Opinions
Section provides for the alteration of only birth certificates. Att. Gen. Op. 84-14.
§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.
(b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates.
(c) Such evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.
(d) When an applicant does not submit the minimum documentation required by the rules for late registration or when the state registrar finds reasons to question the validity or adequacy of the certificate or the documentary evidence, the state registrar shall not register the late certificate and shall advise the applicant of the reason for this action.
The department of health may by rule provide for the dismissal of an application which is not actively prosecuted.
(e) As used in this section, “late” means one year or more after the date of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §20; RL 1955, §57-19; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-16; am L 1972, c 66, §1(2); am L 1997, c 305, §3]
§338-17 Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]
Previous
§338-17.5 Judicial procedure to establish facts of birth. (a) If a delayed certificate of birth is rejected under section 338-16, a petition may be filed with the circuit court for an order establishing a record of the date and place of the birth and the parentage of the person whose birth is to be registered.
(b) The petition shall be accompanied by a statement of the registration official made in accordance with section 338-16(d) and all documentary evidence which was submitted to the registration official in support of such registration.
(c) The court shall fix a time and place for hearing the petition and shall give the registration official who refused to register the petitioner’s delayed certificate of birth fifteen days’ notice of said hearing. Such official, or the official’s authorized representative, may appear and testify in the proceeding.
(d) If the court from the evidence presented finds that the person for whom a delayed certificate of birth is sought was born in this State, it shall make findings as to the place and date of birth, parentage, and such other findings as the case may require and shall issue an order to establish a record of birth.
(e) The clerk of the court shall forward a copy of the order to the state registrar of vital statistics not later than the 10th day of the calendar month following the month in which it was entered. Such order shall be registered by the state registrar of vital statistics in accordance with section 338-13. [L 1972, c 66, pt of §1(3); gen ch 1985; am L 1986, c 339, §45]
§338-17.7 Establishment of new certificates of birth, when. (a) The department of health shall establish, in the following circumstances, a new certificate of birth for a person born in this State who already has a birth certificate filed with the department and who is referred to below as the “birth registrant”:
(1) Upon receipt of an affidavit of paternity, a court order establishing paternity, or a certificate of marriage establishing the marriage of the natural parents to each other, together with a request from the birth registrant, or the birth registrant’s parent or other person having legal custody of the birth registrant, that a new birth certificate be prepared because previously recorded information has been altered pursuant to law;
(2) Upon receipt of a certified copy of a final order, judgment, or decree of a court of competent jurisdiction that determined the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship between a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file and the birth registrant;
(3) Upon receipt of a certified copy of a final adoption decree, or of an abstract of the decree, pursuant to sections 338-20 and 578-14;
(4) Upon receipt of an affidavit of a physician that the physician has examined the birth registrant and has determined the following:
(A) The birth registrant’s sex designation was entered incorrectly on the birth registrant’s birth certificate; or
(B) The birth registrant has had a sex change operation and the sex designation on the birth registrant’s birth certificate is no longer correct; provided that the director of health may further investigate and require additional information that the director deems necessary; or
(5) Upon request of a law enforcement agency certifying that a new birth certificate showing different information would provide for the safety of the birth registrant; provided that the new birth certificate shall contain information requested by the law enforcement agency, shall be assigned a new number and filed accordingly, and shall not substitute for the birth registrant’s original birth certificate, which shall remain in place.
(b) When a new certificate of birth is established under this section, it shall be substituted for the original certificate of birth. Thereafter, the original certificate and the evidence supporting the preparation of the new certificate shall be sealed and filed. Such sealed document shall be opened only by an order of a court of record. [L 1973, c 39, §1; am L 1975, c 66, §2(3); am L 1979, c 130, §1 and c 203, §1; am L 1982, c 4, §1; am L 1983, c 65, §1; am L 1984, c 167, §1; am L 1993, c 131, §2]
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;
(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.
(c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made.
(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.
(e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.
(f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct.
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:
(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes. [L 1949, c 327, §22; RL 1955, §57-21; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 30, §2; HRS §338-18; am L 1977, c 118, §1; am L 1991, c 190, §1; am L 1997, c 305, §5; am L 2001, c 246, §2]
§338-19 Photostatic or typewritten copies of records. The department of health is authorized to prepare typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies of any records and files in its office, which by reason of age, usage, or otherwise are in such condition that they can no longer be conveniently consulted or used without danger of serious injury or destruction thereof, and to certify to the correctness of such copies. The typewritten, photostatic, or microphotographic copies shall be competent evidence in all courts of the State with like force and effect as the original. [L 1949, c 327, §23; RL 1955, §57-22; am L 1957, c 8, §1; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-19]
It leaves out a huge amount of information that the actual birth certificate has.
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