Posted on 05/22/2008 10:46:31 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan
SAN ANGELO, Texas - A state appellate court has ruled that child welfare officials had no right to seize more than 400 children living at a polygamist sect's ranch.
The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were "legally and factually insufficient" under Texas law. They did not immediately order the return of the children.
Child welfare officials removed the children on the grounds that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and trained boys to become future perpetrators.
The appellate court ruled the chaotic hearing held last month did not demonstrate the children were in any immediate danger, the only measure of taking children from their homes without court proceedings.
‘Jeffs and his crew did lie to the landowners when asked what the land was going to be used for. Jeff’s ‘buyer’ said it was for a ‘hunting lodge’.
All these details need to be factored in to understand the way in which the ‘raid’ came to fruition.”
Why in the heck would this need to be considered? If they didn’t want to sell then they shouldn’t have. Once they did its nobodies business as long as a law isn’t broken.
Its a horrible abuse of power that will go on to hurt many more people than MIGHT be helped here if its not thrown down.
The local sheriff was also communicating with an ex-FLDS “informant,” probably one of those women who have left the group and are trying to bring it down.
Since those women left the group before the Texas compound was even built, they couldn’t have any firsthand knowledge of what goes on there.
Do you know something that the rest of us don't?
I am at fault possibly for not qualifying my statement. Perhaps it is a Canadian expression. It means that in a general sense, the society at large is the jury. Just a saying. While I should quit at this stage, I would go further and comment.
Laws which society adheres to, are not always followed. Some of the courts have an anti-establishmment bias. Even worse here in Canada. California's recent decision on same sex marriage prove this. If the court in Texas has this "in yer face" outlook to the constituted authority, then the FLDS will no doubt win. I have seen a photograph of a 17 year old female with her three children and her "husband" all of 56 years of age. Here is the bottom line roughly put.
To coerce a blameless, defenceless human being and to subordinate them, religion or no religion, is a moral wrong.
Well I suppose all the pervs who think polygamy is sanctioned by God and think it is ok for girls to be married off to old men at the age of 15, are rejoicing today!
They can all go to hell.
Thank you for speaking up, and being clear.
I don’t know. I’ve been trying to be level headed all along.
Some days it isn’t always so easy.
One thing that helps is continuing debates with people long enough to wade through the ‘barriers’ and ‘insults’ to get to know someone well enough to understand ‘their point of view’.
For instance, I know yours. Due Process.
I have no problem with that,other than to argue whether they are, or are not getting it. I think the appellate court ruling shows they are getting due process. But...
The times I might seem not so level headed are when you insist that others are (pick your own slur) for thinking ‘government is god’.
Since you are so insistent on following the letter of the law, aren’t you worshipping at the feet of the very GOD you criticize?
Or, perhaps you think ‘law is god’?
Or maybe it’s just that by using that one catch phrase, you leave too much to other’s interpretation.
You accused me, IIRC, of believing government is god.
Maybe that is why I seemed or was ‘mean’ to you.
I only trust government as far as I can see they are being trustful.
CPS went over my line with the restriction on ‘speech’.
It’s really something to read the comments on these threads and then watch what is mainstream on television - even watching Dancing with the Stars...
first a couple dances and a female judge says they look like sex on the dance floor... Usher performs and the choreography of his dance routine is basically humping his partner on the floor.
This is at 9:00 pm - how many 14 y.o. girls were watching this?
This is the standard in America today... okay at primetime to hump your dance partner on the dance floor on national television and also okay for the judges to praise it as being a virtue.
Who needs a temple bed... all a girl and her partner needs is a dance floor! Where is the outrage of the authorities over any of this? NONE! Even to criticize it you must be some kind of fuddy duddy prude. This is the culture we live in - sex and hooking up is dandy - just so long as you don’t do it as a part of your religion. The outrage shown over what these crazy FLDS people do is really overblown. Why not clean up what we are force feeding our kids in popular culture? Seems to me they’ve got a big job sitting right in front of them, they hardly need to go poking around cults. The biggest cult is perpetrated by main stream media - look at Playboy - Hefner has been making a living off of the lascivious nature of old farts for years - no one has shut him down. How many girls in the porn industry start underage? Most likely the majority - perhaps they come from some of those wonderful foster homes?
The fundamental question is whether polygamy is legal in the US or not. if it is not and I suspect it is, then the polygamists should go to jail.
Now that wasn't so hard.
You are so right.
“Well I suppose all the pervs who think polygamy is sanctioned by God and think it is ok for girls to be married off to old men at the age of 15, are rejoicing today!
They can all go to hell.”
The Bible and Koran would both say your attack is unfoounded and highly disrespectful. Both books also support polygamy though the Koran limits a man to four wives while the Bible doesn’t.
Darwinism? Guess you know the answer to that one.
Yes, it is time to decriminalize polygamy.
“Why in the heck would this need to be considered? “
Because it’s another ‘reason’ in the list of reasons why people in Texas may have been on a long term project to rid Texas of the FLDS.
Unless you think that didn’t happen.
The scenario has been that the FLDS were just innocent lambs carrying on their simple life, and then ...boom... one hoax phone call came in, and the CPS went in with guns blazing, ripped the babies from nursing at their mother’s breast, and drug the children out to take them to foster homes so they could have lesbian sex with them.
I am exaggerating for effect, but all these things have been stipulated on these threads.
FNC just had a garbled report saying an appeal to the TX SC will be filed today.
(Actually, the infoidiot said the TX SC would file an appeal today)
I wouldn’t even post on those FLDS threads after the raids. I read one of them and thought “I don’t need that abuse.”
“Its a horrible abuse of power that will go on to hurt many more people than MIGHT be helped here if its not thrown down.”
If that turns out to be the truth, then I would agree.
No one supports abuse of power by any branch of the government, even though we all get screwed by it every day.
Yes, it is time to decriminalize polygamy.
Who asked you?
They had called the Dale Barlow who had already been arrested for similar crimes, who I believe was in Arizona and claimed he hadn't been at the ranch, or at least not recently.
However, Barlow is an awfully common name in the FLDS, and I would think that they would have considered it quite possible that there was another Dale Barlow, who was living at the ranch.
I would think that the real question would be if they told the judge about their call to the Dale Barlow in AZ when they attained the warrant. If they told the judge about it, then wouldn't the warrant still have been attained in good faith?
If they didn't tell the judge...
Is this an appeal to an appeal?
Or a different appeal?
Or am I asking questions that don’t have answers yet?
Without finding any evidence, or just without accumulating enough evidence to attain a warrant before this?
“Or do you have to go behind closed doors to commit your activities?”
And I do apologize for that remark.
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