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NYT: McCain “sealed away” from the lessons of Vietnam
Hot Air ^ | 5/14/08 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 05/14/2008 5:34:20 PM PDT by Dawnsblood

In the New York Times’ upcoming edition of their Sunday magazine, they take a look at John McCain’s divergent views of the Iraq War from those of his fellow Vietnam veterans. In The McCain Doctrines, Matt Bai reports that most of these colleagues (with the noted exception of Bob Kerrey) attribute McCain’s support for Iraq to the fact that he didn’t serve on the ground in Vietnam — and that his years as a POW somehow “sealed” him away from the war’s lessons:

There is a feeling among some of McCain’s fellow veterans that his break with them on Iraq can be traced, at least partly, to his markedly different experience in Vietnam. McCain’s comrades in the Senate will not talk about this publicly. They are wary of seeming to denigrate McCain’s service, marked by his legendary endurance in a Hanoi prison camp, when in fact they remain, to this day, in awe of it. And yet in private discussions with friends and colleagues, some of them have pointed out that McCain, who was shot down and captured in 1967, spent the worst and most costly years of the war sealed away, both from the rice paddies of Indochina and from the outside world. During those years, McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle; he never underwent the conversion that caused Kerry, for one, to toss away some of his war decorations during a protest at the Capitol. Whatever anger McCain felt remained focused on his captors, not on his own superiors back in Washington.

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008electionbias; antiamericanism; communismkills; hanoijane; mccain; media; navy; notapeacemovement; nyt; phoneysoldiers; pow; vietnam; yellowjournalism
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To: Dawnsblood

The NY Times comes out with another “Load”. We compare McCain to the likes of BHO who’s ground experience was as a Chicago Ward Healer?


61 posted on 05/14/2008 7:38:56 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama: America is the greatest country on the earth, Help me bring change.)
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To: Zap Brannigan
Wow. That’s pretty amazing. I never even thought of this spin to try and discredit McCain’s military record and experience.

Don't feel bad. The NYT has dozens of trained professionals working on it day and night...

62 posted on 05/14/2008 7:51:04 PM PDT by Interesting Times (Swiftboating, you say? Check out ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: All; Dawnsblood

.

THE Lesson of the Vietnam War =

NEVER ever AGAIN abandon a Free People who are fighting for their own Freedom.

HILLARY RODHAM & WILLIAM CLINTON’s support of Communist North Vietnam’s terrrorist takeover of a then Free South Vietnam =

..”JOURNEY from the FALL”..

http://www.JourneyFromTheFall.com

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1806248/posts

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts

.

What price for the still Free (US) to pay now...
...in a new time of war
...in a new century
...with our own Freedom
...directly at stake
...right here at home..?

.


63 posted on 05/14/2008 7:53:40 PM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: Dawnsblood
From the article
“McCain’s support for Iraq to the fact that he didn’t serve on the ground in Vietnam — and that his years as a POW somehow “sealed” him away from the war’s lessons”

This is cheap and typical NYT yellow journalism. The Times is trying to fill the manipulative roll of Dan Rather in this election cycle. I am an “on the ground” grunt of Viet Nam and I share the same views of Iraq as does McCain. Let's ask the NYT to identify all those who are on their current payroll and served on the ground in Viet Nam, giving some credibility to this story. I would venture ZERO.
The entire world is made up of two types of people, player and scorekeepers. In the case of the NYT, they are scorekeepers who are obsessed with changing the scorecard to fit their desired outcome of the game.

64 posted on 05/14/2008 8:04:07 PM PDT by AlphaOneAlpha
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To: krb
“sealed away” from the lessons of Vietnam

That sounds like a serious stretch to me.

It is. Psychologizing looks easy but amateurs really ought not be trying it at home. Especially geeks like Matt Bai.

The fact is that the distortions characteristic of overriding shame and anxiety are mostly to be seen in the perceptions of the Kerrey Kerry Hagel cabal. They are the ones unable to make realistic appraisals and separate Iraq from VN. A very dangerous failing for those with responsibility for decisionmaking.

If in fact McCain is able to decide about Iraq separately from VN that is an advantage not a deficit. But I wouldn't expect the jerkoffs at the Slimes to understand.

65 posted on 05/14/2008 8:04:49 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Dawnsblood
Matt Bai reports that most of these colleagues (with the noted exception of Bob Kerrey) attribute McCain’s support for Iraq to the fact that he didn’t serve on the ground in Vietnam...

I suspect it was Bai's intention to make people like me see red on this one, and what I'm thinking isn't fit for FR anyway, so let me simply offer this - McCain "served on the ground" for five and a half years, during which time he had a very clear idea of who the enemy was because it was the enemy who was torturing him. Mr. Kerry, who spent 90 days in theater and awarded himself a medal for backshooting a Vietnamese kid, would be ashamed of himself for commenting on this if he were capable of shame. Mr. Bai and the NY Times have managed to reach a new low with this one and I didn't think that was even possible. Seething.

66 posted on 05/14/2008 8:06:39 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: All; Dawnsblood

.

Former Sen. BOB KERRY invited the President of a still Communist Vietnam to sit and dine with him at his New University in New York City. A President that was on his way to meet President BUSH last fall.

The same BOB KERRY who also took on Reverend gear last year just so he could officiate the wedding of his longtime friend Comedian STEVE MARTIN at STEVE’s Beverly Hills home.

In his new autobiography, ‘Born Standing Up,’ STEVE MARTIN openly explains the roots of his own most Liberal roots.

It’s an interesting read.

.


67 posted on 05/14/2008 8:07:39 PM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: Dawnsblood

The Times is sealed away from the developments of the last 20 years. Hey, Times, communism has collapsed! Ho Chi Minh was a sucker, and so were the people who fought for him! All the Vietnamese got was a totalitarian government and a whole lot of misery.


68 posted on 05/14/2008 8:09:35 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Concerned about the price of arugula)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

Y’hear that McCain almost had an affair with a campaign staffer back in 2000? Yes, it’s another NY Slimes hit piece.

Obama Apologizes to WXYZ Reporter (aka “Sweetie”)
WXYZ | 05/14/08 | WXYZ Report
Posted on 05/14/2008 3:04:33 PM PDT by Kieri
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2016027/posts

(Democrat) Ohio AG (Marc Dann) resigns
amid pressure of impeachment, criminal probe
AP on Yahoo | 5/14/08 | Julie Carr Smyth - ap
Posted on 05/14/2008 2:17:15 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2015999/posts


69 posted on 05/14/2008 8:10:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: Dawnsblood

The Times is despicable, as usual. No one should waste a dime on this miserable enterprise.


70 posted on 05/14/2008 8:11:16 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Concerned about the price of arugula)
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To: OldEagle
morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle;"

Can anyone translate this for me?

It means they lost it and killed innocent civilians. And blamed it on the "confusion of the jungle."

71 posted on 05/14/2008 8:11:21 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: SunkenCiv
Almost only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.
72 posted on 05/14/2008 8:25:38 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: Dawnsblood
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain YouTube video

Former P.O.W.: "Why I Cannot Support Senator John McCain for President"

The War Secrets Sen. John McCain Hides

73 posted on 05/14/2008 8:31:21 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: Interesting Times; ALOHA RONNIE
Hmmm....weren't Hagel and Kerry discredited years ago. Phony service records, 120 days, manufactured AARs and Purple Hearts for splinters?


74 posted on 05/14/2008 8:42:42 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (MSM-Keelhauling the News daily!)
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To: TigersEye
Add this to your list.

John Kerry was the Chairman and John McCain serve on the committee.
75 posted on 05/14/2008 8:58:34 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (MSM-Keelhauling the News daily!)
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To: BIGLOOK

Thank you. I will.


76 posted on 05/14/2008 9:11:59 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: Dawnsblood

The phrases Morissey highlights are not indicative of the entire article.

It is a 8-pager, and while it has the usual NYT leftist slant, it is not the typical “hit piece” IMO.

It actually gives a pretty thorough recap of John McCain’s evolving foreign policy positions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/magazine/18mccain-t.html


77 posted on 05/14/2008 9:23:49 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: All
I think people here would be surprised by this but
Webb wrote a long article,several years ago, in which he spoke bitterly about the betrayal and despicable behavior of the antiwar movement. The opinions he expressed in this article about Viet Nam were 180 degrees removed from John Kerry's.
He was particularly disgusted with the behavior of Hollywood antiwar liberals.
Webb has done a lot of things in the last few years to make me dislike him, but either he has changed a core belief or he is a bit more complex a person.
78 posted on 05/14/2008 9:25:26 PM PDT by Jonah Johansen ("Coming soon to a neighborhood near you")
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To: hinckley buzzard
"It means they lost it and killed innocent civilians. "

In a war, what is an innocent civilian? And why do you have to lose it to kill them?

79 posted on 05/14/2008 9:31:56 PM PDT by OldEagle
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To: Jonah Johansen

Good point — I was thinking of Webb in this context, too. I don’t know how he reconciles views he expressed over the past couple of decades with trying to respect his current Democrat colleagues in the Senate, but the Jim Webb of these articles would be a lot more closely aligned with John McCain than with the Quisling Jon Carry:

http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/variouspubs/strategicreview.htm

http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/variouspubs/amlegionwhywefought.htm

http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/wallstjrnl/mediawar.htm


80 posted on 05/14/2008 9:57:55 PM PDT by Enchante (Obama: My 1930s Foreign Policy Goes Well With My 1960s Social Policy!)
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