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Armed to kill in national parks?
christian science monitor ^ | Tue May 6, 4:00 AM ET | unknown

Posted on 05/08/2008 7:58:35 PM PDT by Redcitizen

Pressured by the gun lobby and 51 US senators, the Interior Department proposes enhancing everyone's national park experience by letting people pack heat with a picnic. That's just what the nation's millions of park visitors don't need.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: animals; banglist; conservation; guns; nationalparks; nationalparkservice
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To: Redcitizen
It would truly amaze liberals if they knew how many people are carrying.

I carry to my friends' parties all the time. They never know.

One time I went outside to have a cigarette with another Second Amendment junkie and told him I was carrying. It turned out he was too!

41 posted on 05/08/2008 9:47:19 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: MartinStyles

I agree with you.

Conservative people are very much realists. Liberals deny reality and are the most dangerous idealists because of it.

For example, take human nature. Conservatives admit the ugly truth that humans are by nature, “bad” (self centered, selfish) and need to learn how to get along peaceably with others. We see this by knowing ourselves, and thousands of years of experience. Anyone raising a child knows this.

Yet liberals reject reality, and hold the insane worldview that people by nature are generally good, and the real problems in the world are because people learn how to be bad. That’s why they feel justified blaming ‘society’ for individual’s evil crimes. Yet they completely deny individual choice, the fact that people under the same/similar circumstances do not commit crimes, and ignore the fact that babies, children and even some adults must consistently be taught to get along with others, and to think of others, not just themselves.


42 posted on 05/08/2008 9:57:31 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: oyez
If I hear the expression, “It will be like the Wild West”, am liable to hurl. The developing West was much safer.

Actually, it was.

People knew there were always consequences.

PhotobucketPhotobucket

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Any FReeper who doesn't own a gun and get good training and practice regularly is a fool.
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43 posted on 05/08/2008 9:59:37 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Redcitizen
I generally go for a long rifle myself. Ive never needed it but 30 rounds per mag sure helps. I have never seen a bobcat but have heard of mountain lions abounding in the places where I hike.

What is your choice of handguns?

44 posted on 05/08/2008 10:01:16 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Cobra64
I just took my new 5" S&W 460 Mag revolver to the range last week. I had 45LC, .454 Casull and some hot Corbon 460 ammo. The Corbon bullet weight was 395 gr. I shot the Corbon stuff first. The recoil was pretty stout, but tolerable. Next, I loaded up the 454 Casull. It was hand-loaded 200 gr FMJ over 37 gr of W296. I shot one round and had "chunks" spit back through the compensator. A bloody spot appeared on my left cheek and left ear. It was a damn good reminder of why you wear safety glasses when shooting. I didn't shoot anymore of that box of 454. They are fine in the Ruger Super Redhawk, but I've tolerated my last face cutting experience with a compensated barrel. The 45LC rounds were just fine. Excellent for plinking.

I purchased the 460 with the expectation that it would give me a little more capability than the S&W 629 (44 mag) with PMC 240 gr JHP. That is my standard hiking rig. Clearly, I have to more experimentation to do before relying on the 460.

BTW, I had ONE remaining Hornady 300 gr 454 Casull factory round left in my 454 box. I fired it and had no face cutting experience. That tells me that it is important to have the right quality of bullet on the 460 rounds. The one I was using was more suited for use on a 45Auto cartridge.

45 posted on 05/08/2008 11:54:23 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Redcitizen

F*ck ‘em. I pack a .32 acp military issue, nice and lightweight for those who practice hiking light. I’m not going 80 miles in the backcountry, with my kids, without being able to protect myself. We’ve come upon cougar kills, had a cougar right outside our tent at night, either that or a wolf, plus you got more crazies out there than you can shake a stick at. We wear whistles when traveling in brush or berry areas, the kids are taught to blow like hell if they see a cougar to scare it off and talk loud in berry areas to alert bears to our presence. We’re not looking for engagement opportunities and practice low impact trekking. One time I’ve had to fire a shot in the dead of night when one was sniffing my head through the tent fabric. I was glad I didn’t have to rely on my Bowie knife under my pillow. I feel for the poor bastard that tries to get one over on me.


46 posted on 05/09/2008 1:54:23 AM PDT by CBF (It's the law stupid!)
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To: ANGGAPO
If you should meet a Grizzly or Cougar it's nice to have around.

or maybe 5 or 6

47 posted on 05/09/2008 4:46:56 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Myrddin
200 is WAY too light for the 454. It was probably half-vaporized before it even hit the compensator. You also get a lot of blowback because the case mouth doesn't expand. Fouls the heck out of your action.

Loaded a few experimental 200s for the .45LC with a light cowboy load and had the same blowback problem. Went to the 250s, now no problem.

We're casting our own bullets out of discarded wheelweights that we got for free. At these low velocities, we don't need to augment the wheelweights with any new metal. But our neighbors think we're crazy -- you have to pre-clean the wheelweights and get all the steel clips and tire powder etc. out by melting them in a discarded stainless steel sink over a turkey fryer in the driveway and fluxing them with chunks of beeswax (which makes a huge towering flame every so often) . . . . but our neighbors are quite used to odd stuff going on in the yard, what with dog agility and retriever training and building jumps for my horse . . . .

48 posted on 05/09/2008 5:20:54 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Redcitizen
“unknown” clearly has not been to ANY national Park in the past 15 years. Only the most remote and hard to camp at ones are safe for family activity. Yosemite is in my back yard. I will NOT go there because of the gang activity and general lawlessness. The last thing I need is to have to shoot some scumbag and have a Federal gun charge and investigation. Decent folks should boycott National Parks until the rules are changed AND the Parks are cleaned up.
49 posted on 05/09/2008 5:24:59 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Sleep with one eye open, Gripping your pillow tight , Exit light , Enter night.......)
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To: AnAmericanMother
My Lakota name is “Ground Slayer”. Long story.
50 posted on 05/09/2008 5:30:29 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Sleep with one eye open, Gripping your pillow tight , Exit light , Enter night.......)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Do tell. (acquire target before pulling trigger . . . at least that's my besetting sin when I'm in a hurry.)
51 posted on 05/09/2008 5:32:03 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Short version is that but it has more to do with Alcohol, tobacco and firearms during deer season in South Dakota I put one in the ground at about 500 yards under a very nice white tail buck and then that night I tied one on and fell down. Our Lakota friend then named me “Ground Slayer”, since he is an Elder it stuck and the sucker even recorded in the records just to annoy me. My defense is everyone has a bad day.
52 posted on 05/09/2008 5:39:07 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Will this thread be jacked by a Mormon?)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Yeah . . . but it's even worse to have a bad day when somebody's standing by to record it for posterity . . . .

I've missed 'em too, and at shorter ranges than 500 yds. In Georgia you almost never get a shot at a deer over 50-75 yds because of all the heavy cover. You might get an occasional 100 yd. shot across an open field if your stand is at the edge of the tree line. But not often. So the tendency here is to shoot over them rather than under when you miss. At least that's what I wind up doing, although all this cowboy action shooting has certainly improved my close range accuracy .. ..

53 posted on 05/09/2008 5:44:22 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
I love deer hunting in the
West. Odd but the last three i have bagged out here were under 50 yards. I had a string of about 10 that all over 250 yards. One was well over 500 into the morning sun - that was my best day. The crew I hunt with in South Dakota are ruthless and expect it back.
54 posted on 05/09/2008 5:49:35 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Will this thread be jacked by a Mormon?)
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To: dogcaller

Good catch.


55 posted on 05/09/2008 6:27:50 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: mad_as_he$$

My dogs are ruthless too, and if I miss a bird they look at me like, “Why do we hunt with an idiot like you?”


56 posted on 05/09/2008 6:32:46 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Kent1957
They say the same thing everytime carry laws are relaxed. Mass shootings, cowboy gun fights, more people being shot. It never happens, but they keep predicting it.

Allowing people to carry in parks might reduce the numbers of "unexplained" disappearances and rapes that seem to happen in these areas. Lots of serial killers seem to prefer them for stomping grounds. They might think twice if they have to worry about some hiker or camper drawing down on them.

57 posted on 05/09/2008 8:16:50 AM PDT by PsyOp (Truth in itself is rarely sufficient to make men act. - Clauswitz, On War, 1832.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The standard high velocity load for the 460 is 200 gr. I think the issue boils down to a quality bullet. The .454 rounds were .451 caliber plated (West Coast or Berry's). The construction is simply too light for a .454 or hotter cartridge. A good Barnes XPB (200 gr) would be just fine.

The first time I experienced blowback from a comp was in the S&W 629 PP. The blowback went through the top of my left ear. It was a somewhat bloody affair on the firing line at American Shooting Center in San Diego.

The typical bullets offered for use on the 45LC are 255 gr, .454 caliber. I've always had excellent results with that product from West Coast Bullet.

Do you have any favorite molds for the .45LC? I'm somewhat interested in finding some .357 double ended wadcutter molds. West Coast Bullet once sold a 148 gr DEWC that was plated. It kept the barrel clean and put holes on the paper target that look just like a paper punch. The perfectly flat ends were responsible for that clean punch. The perfect symmetry made it easy to load on the Dillon 550.

My wife has a Ruger Vaquero Bird's Mouth in 45LC. I load her rounds fairly lightly so she can nail the spinners without excessive recoil.

58 posted on 05/09/2008 10:00:19 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
255 gr round point flat nose is what we use in the .45. Having a casting party this weekend because there was a two-day match last weekend, and we are fresh out of .45 bullets. Hubby has a '73 with the bull barrel.

I'm shooting the .357/.38 New Vaqueros 'cause we got a really good deal on the Win '92, and I wanted only one caliber to deal with when the panic's on. But since we had the '92 slicked up by a friend I don't get the stovepipes and jams any more. Which is nice.

Cowboy velocities are so low, it doesn't really matter if the bullets are a little soft or friable. Of course it's plain lead only because of the proximity of the targets, it's bad enough to be hit with fragments let alone solids! You can be standing there minding your own business and have a good size chunk of lead hit you in the side of the head from the adjoining range over the berm! Which is why a wide brimmed hat is a good idea and shooting glasses are absolutely mandatory, no matter how silly they look with your costume (the neon green earplugs look silly too, but I value my hearing.)

59 posted on 05/09/2008 10:44:59 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: ANGGAPO

” Also, there are a few human coyotes that roam the parks.
9 posted on Thu May 8 20:14:33 2008 by ANGGAPO”

More than you can imagine. And they are well armed. This is what is going on in our national parks and forests.

http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/search?q=invasion+800+miles


60 posted on 05/09/2008 10:53:06 AM PDT by AuntB (Vote Obama! ..........Because ya can't blame 'the man' when you are the 'man'.... Wanda Sikes)
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