Posted on 05/08/2008 9:26:55 AM PDT by neverdem
Right now Illinois and Wisconsin are the only two states in the U.S. that entirely outlaw citizens carrying concealed firearms. But two board members are pushing a proposal to change that, starting with Winnebago County. Looking back at recent tragedies like the N.I.U. shooting prompts many of us to ask what could have been done differently.
"If there had been a person there, who was of age and who had met the qualifications and chose to have concealed carry and the campus didn't have a problem with it, you might not have as many people dead today as you do have," says Winnebago County Board Member Doug Aurand.
Aurand and a Republican counterpart on the Winnebago County Board will bring forward a resolution at Thursday night's board meeting asking for Winnebago County residents to be allowed to carry concealed firearms, after meeting certain requirements.
"You have to have forty hours of training, you have to go through a criminal background check, you have to prove that you're mentally stable, you don't have alcohol problems, you don't have drug problems and you have to be 21 years of age," says Aurand. Aurand says F.B.I. statistics show states that enact concealed carry laws lower their crime rates.
"Let's not kid ourselves, the bad guys have the weapons," says Aurand. "Now the bad guy, they don't know who's got a gun and who doesn't."
Aurand believes Winnebago County Sheriff Dick Meyers already has the authority to issue gun permits to citizens. But Meyers says that rule only applies in situations like retired police officers, not ordinary residents.
Winnebago County State's Attorney Phil Nicolosi does not believe the proposal has strong legal footing. "If the state prohibits a certain activity, a municipality or a county cannot in and of itself go in and say, well we're going to create a different law, they cannot do that," says Nicolosi.
But Aurand says the concealed carry law has never been challenged. He believes his interpretation would stand up in court.
Sheriff Meyers tells 23 News he has the authority to arm auxilary sheriff's deputies, but they have to be in uniforms, separate from those the county wears and performing specific law enforcement tasks.
He can also give retired law enforcement permits, after they complete training, but he does not believe those instances carry over to normal citizens.
Aurand argues there is little difference between arming a retired officer and a citizen who goes through training.
If the county board decides to pass the resolution, after a committe examines it, enforcing it would likely end up in court. Either Sheriff Meyers chooses not to issue the permits and someone may sue, or he does issue permits and someone sues the other way. That way a judge would make the final decision.
Aurand admits the optimal solution would be passing a state law, but since that's not happening, he wants to push the issue at the county level.
NJ has a de facto ban.
So does Maryland!
BUM(P)ing
There are several states where issuance is at the discretion of the chiefs of police and the like. In all of those states, the people with money, power, and political connections are granted permission to carry a firearm. The peasants need not even ask.
Actually, you CAN carry a pistol in Illinois as long as it is in a separate container (like a zippered pouch). There is a “loophole”, if you will, in the law that allows this. I don’t have a link for it but maybe someone less-lazy than me can provide it.
As it now stands, Chicago can basically pass any law it wants, regardless of State Law. And to some respects Cook County too. Maybe this is what Doug Aurand in Winnebago is looking at.
In any case it sure will be interesting. 'King' Daley and 'my' ijit gov, Blago, will go apoplectic. Daley because he thinks he runs all of IL, and gov Blago because, well, he's an ijit.
Chances are, I’m going to have to move to Wisconsin soon. Crap. Apparently they tried to prosecute a store owner who kept a loaded firearm on his person in the store. The state supreme court had to state that it was ok for a store or home owner to keep a loaded weapon on themselves to defend their store or home... pretty sad when they have to actually spell out the right to defend yourself on your own property. Guess I’ll be joining one of the local gun groups to push for changes.
My understanding of Wisconsin law, as it pertains to the powers of counties (and I have personal work experience therewith, albeit a score of years ago), is that counties, being sub-divisions of the state, do not have “home rule,” meaning they they perform only such governmental functions as are expressly permitted by state law. Cities and villages, on the other hand, having the powers of home rule, may do whatever is not expressly proscribed by state law, provided it is constitutional.
As much as I admire what Winnebago county is contemplating enacting, I doubt they have the requisite statutory authority.
That 'loophole' wasn't a really 'loophole' and anyway, no longer exists. It was 'closed' a few years ago.
It did pertain to a gun in a zippered pouch (fanny pack) with the magazine in a separate partition of the pouch. But the Cook County States Attorney, notorious gun grabber DICK DeVine, warned all that no one better try it as he'd prosecute anyone to the fullest extent of the law (more so than a gang banger). Then the IL General Assembly closed the 'loophole' with more exact language as to how a gun can legally be transported and Fanny Packs are now a specific no-no.
btw, The org that was pushing this 'carry loophole' was Concealed Carry, Inc. and is now out of business due to legal fees (he had a good idea but was fighting a losing battle).
Where’s Winnebago County, WI or IL?
My understanding is...it has to be in a carry case of some kind, with the ammo in a different location...and must be in an area of the auto that cannot be accessed without first having to exit the auto. (like the trunk). Not sure what the rule is if it’s in a van or a pickup truck regarding that requirement.
Let's be honest. It wouldn't have necessarily taken a "qualified" person to stop this. Hell, the shooter didn't have any training and was able to kill 32.
Central Eastern Wisconsin
OK, correction. While there is one in WI this is apparently the one in IL.
A woman was prosecuted for carrying an unloaded handgun in her purse into a Courthouse somewhere downstate. The ILSC said that a purse qualified as a case and the woman was declared 'not guilty'.
The DuPage County Prosecutor publicly announced he would no longer prosecute any 'fanny pack' cases in his jursidiction.
L
Here we go again. Are they really expecting suicidal, gun-shooting maniacs to comply with such laws?
On the other hand, even the maniacs would likely hesitate before they used concealed weapons if they knew that people might be carrying concealed weapons.
Thanks to constitutional flunky state lawmakers and the people who elected them to office, Illinois and Wisconsin are in contempt of both the 2nd and 14th Amendments.
Illinois and Wisconsin wrongly ignore that John Bingham and the 39th Congress clarified that the 2nd A. is a personal right which the 14th A. applied to the states. See the 2nd A. in the middle column of the following page from the Congressional Globe, a precursor to the Congressional Record.
http://tinyurl.com/y3ne4nThe page referenced above is one of Bingham's discussions of the 14th A., Bingham being the main author of Sec. 1 of that amendment.
IL.
North. On Wis border. Rockford, IL is in Winnebago Cty.
And in Rockford, you need concealed carry. It has 'changed'.
And this is a shocker.:
The DuPage County Prosecutor publicly announced he would no longer prosecute any 'fanny pack' cases in his jursidiction.Wow! Joe Birkett has IMO been portrayed as a gun grabber. Not as bad as DICK DeVine (sic) in Cook, but not exactly 'gun friendly' (I still voted for him).
But if that's true I may start wearing a Fanny Pack 'holster' with my Makarov :-)
[my 9mm is too large, its a Star, Model B (C&R)]
Ironically, in Wisconsin it's "concealed carry" that's illegal. You can "open carry" legally, although you might find youself in trouble anyway if some jerk cop thought you were brandishing in some way...
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