Posted on 05/06/2008 5:16:55 AM PDT by MrEdd
Census sheets found in a safe at a polygamous sect's ranch in west Texas both support and contradict the state's claim of a widespread culture of underage marriage.
Texas authorities used the sheets to convince a judge that there was a "pervasive pattern" among the FLDS of marrying underage girls to older men.
A review of the "Father's Family Information" sheets shows a handful of 16-year-old wives, 13 young monogamous couples and 24 men with multiple wives - including one man with 21 wives and 36 children.
A Texas Ranger testified about the census sheets during an April 17-18 court hearing before 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, who accepted the records as evidence despite objections from attorneys representing FLDS parents and children. The pages were recently released by the court. Sgt. Danny Crawford said the sheets were found April 5 in an office at the ranch, home to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Texas authorities raided the ranch on April 3 after receiving reports of an abused 16-year-old, calls now being investigated as a possible hoax.
Authorities have said, however, they found evidence of a polygamous lifestyle and underage marriage practices at the ranch that supported removing 464 children.
The bishop's record sheets helped them make that case.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
Nothing?
Not rape?
Not incest?
Not beating children to force the mothers into submission?
Not waterboarding babies?
Not taking families away from fathers who have fallen out of favor?
Not working kids as slave labor in fields where they face a high risk of *accidents*?
Not kicking out preteen boys onto the street into the world that they have been taught their whole lives is evil and of the devil?
Not coercing behavior with the threat of eternal damnation?
What would be bad enough to justify taking these kids?
Anything?
Welcome to FR newb.
You tell me. What are you going to accuse that guard of doing?
It is pretty easy to judge the motivation of a poster.
If they ask questions, that’s good.
If they answer questions, that’s really good.
If they ask, but never answer, then I think it becomes all too clear the GAME they are playing.
Their intent is to SPAM F.R. with their opinion.
Somebody’s post is gone and apparently so is he.
I guess I run in different circles at times and get exposed to quite a bit that is different then the American cultural norm, if we can even define that anymore.
“This was true of one of the young girls who would have implicated her husband because of age. CPS just gave up after that.”
She looked at her ‘husband’, hesitant to respond, and he said, “You’re 18”, and then she said, “I’m 18”.
Some wonder if that should be questioned.
What if the CPS asked an underage rape victim if the alleged perpetrator raped her, and she looked at the perp, and he said, “Say NO”, and then she said, “No, he didn’t”.
According to some, the CPS should then walk away, and never inform the authorities.
What kind of drugs must one take, to become that delusional?
Here is some info about the XFZ men:
Nephi Jeffs - Warren’s brother, received Jeffs’ jailhouse confessions
Leroy Johnson Steed - a highpriest ordained in 2003. One of the leaders a YFZ. Formed a texas corp called R.S. Supply. Was charged with tampering with physical evidence, a felony. Possible counselor to Warren Jeffs.
Mike Emack - had the furnace built at YFZ. Has been on a work mission for four years while is family has still been in their house at Short Creek. (except for his young 19-year-old wife.)
Wendell Nielsen - leader in FLDS, was a counselor to Warren Jeffs. Has been Warren Jeff’s right-hand man. His picture is seen hung next to Jeffs in FLDS homes. He was a convert to the FLDS. His sister was married to Warren’s father, Rulon Jeffs. Founder of a successful high-tech machining company, Western Precision once located in Hildale. In 1981, Nielsen founded Western Precision, a lucrative company with contracts spanning a range of fields: Aerospace, military, automotive, mining, health and fitness and medical. Nielsen disappeared from Colorado City in 2003. Now believed to be in 1st Presidency
Isaac Jeffs - Warren’s brother. Was with Warren when he was arrested. Was with Warren often in the jailhouse and in the count room. Was rumored to have serious disagreement with Merril Jessop over YFZ. Wife Merilyn testified at YFZ court hearing.
Lloyd H. Barlow. Graduated from the UofU’s School of Medicine in 1995. He completed an internship in internal medicine in 1996, and then did a family medicine residency at the U. that ended in 1999. Barlow oversees a health clinic in Hildaleat YFZ. Repeatedly visited ailing Warren Jeffs in the Washington County jail in the spring of 2007. He’s licensed to practice medicine in Utah, in Arizona and - since June 2005 - in Texas. Declined to go into detail about medical facilities on the ranch or respond directly to other questions - such as whether he witnessed child abuse without a lawyer present.
Richard Jessop - Took Dateline on the tour through YFZ. He didn’t introduce his three wives.
Lyle Jeffs - brother of Warren, acting bishop, handling many of the Church afairs with Warren in jail, including evicting families out of the FLDS. The leader of the Church in Hildale/Colorado City. Often in YFZ. Said to be “a man with a foul mouth,” and “worse than Warren.”
Merril Jessop - Bishop of the Texas Stake, now believed to be in 1st Presidency
Abraham Jeffs - mentioned in the YFZ hearing as having a 16-year-old wife.
Willie E. Jessop - Was Willie Timpson. His mother later married Fred Jessop, the bishop of the FLDS. When Fred was removed by Jeffs, Rulon Jeffs (when old and ill) ordained Willie to be the new bishop but also ordained him to many other things including apostle. Warren Jeffs told Willie to forget about the other things he was ordained to and just serve as bishop. Willie changed his legal name to Jessop. From jail, Warren Jeffs stated the Willie should have been the ligitimate prophet because of this ordination. It is possible the Willie is now the president of the FLDS with Wendell Nielsen and Merril Jessop as counselors.
http://166.70.44.77/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=9165683&PageIndex=7
It’s most likely how it was done forever in the past, but I think we expect more of our spouses than we did then. And of course the divorce rates were low, as women had little choice in what to do.
susie
They are surely legal (in the US—I am clueless about the rest of the world) as long as the woman agrees. They cannot be forced as they can in some countries. Of course many women would go along to keep peace in the family, if they are not too Americanized, but that’s a separate issue, and one I have little opinion on. It’s not for me, but I can’t police the world!
susie
That’s an entirely different question, and completely off the topic of what documentation should be sufficient to prove your child belongs to you.
According to the article yesterday, some of them had birth records and marriage records from Utah, but those records were not accepted.
Here is the problem I see with the idea if the law dose not cover them change it and charge them. That is against the Constitution you cannot pass or change a law then charge someone for what they did when it was legal. This is the reason some of us worry this will wind up eroding the rights of all of us not just the flds.
Cordially,
You seem to miss one little point. The girls were under age. Or is that ok with you?
susie
The FLDS is a cult. I think the Catholic Church also does not have paperwork and footprints, as it is not a parent nor does it have the ability to bear children.
The allegation in the paper yesterday was that certain parents had birth and marriage records from Utah. It didn't say whether those records included footprints from the hospital -- I'll have to ask a friend of mine here if he did footprints for his wife's home births.
Your statement substitutes a single entity for the individuals involved in the actual cases. It's the number one complaint I have about how this is being handled -- that everybody is being treated as if they are one person.
Will you please show many any other cases where this has happened? If you cannot, then you must agree that there is something very different about this case.
susie
“Some” docs clearly weren’t enough if other evidence is missing.
When given a gift, one must remember to return the favor.
PRETTY PICTURES.
Look for a POTATO SHED. It is the alleged location of the high temperature furnace.
http://web.sccn2.net/flds/02-19-08.htm
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.