Posted on 05/06/2008 5:16:55 AM PDT by MrEdd
Census sheets found in a safe at a polygamous sect's ranch in west Texas both support and contradict the state's claim of a widespread culture of underage marriage.
Texas authorities used the sheets to convince a judge that there was a "pervasive pattern" among the FLDS of marrying underage girls to older men.
A review of the "Father's Family Information" sheets shows a handful of 16-year-old wives, 13 young monogamous couples and 24 men with multiple wives - including one man with 21 wives and 36 children.
A Texas Ranger testified about the census sheets during an April 17-18 court hearing before 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, who accepted the records as evidence despite objections from attorneys representing FLDS parents and children. The pages were recently released by the court. Sgt. Danny Crawford said the sheets were found April 5 in an office at the ranch, home to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Texas authorities raided the ranch on April 3 after receiving reports of an abused 16-year-old, calls now being investigated as a possible hoax.
Authorities have said, however, they found evidence of a polygamous lifestyle and underage marriage practices at the ranch that supported removing 464 children.
The bishop's record sheets helped them make that case.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
Some never listen to it, but those that do, question, pick apart, see the lies. I really believe that it is the voice of God or our guardian angels or whatever that is in us that makes some see the bad, even when isolated from all other knowledge.
The next step is either feeding the fire and being willing to suffer the consequences of the rebellion, or putting it out, and in a real sense, snuffing out your own spirit.
LOL!
Which means, no matter what happens, the seeds of rebellion have been not only planted, but well watered.
This article is about the Bishop’s List.
Well, not that a real Bishop wrote it, but that’s what it is called.
What is more interesting is the other info on the list.
SOME of the women are listed as WIVES, some are listed as MOTHERS.
Why?
Many of the FEMALES location is given as “ELSEWHERE”.
The others are R17 (YFZ Ranch).
(Maybe that’s to help GOD when the end of the world comes, and he takes everyone from the R17 location. God can then go find the other ‘wives/mothers/children’ by going ELSEWHERE.)
Is that even true?
I read it stood for YEAR FOR ZION, and was named that, after JEFFS money man bought the place, under false pretenses, because JEFFS had predicted the ‘END OF THE WORLD’.
Which, he has done many times.
HE told his ‘flock’ that they were moving to TEXAS because the end of the world would come that year.
That is ‘how’ he got them to work day and night to build the place.
When the end of the world didn’t come, he just moved the date, and told them to keep working.
Or am I wrong?
You don’t think they would intentionally ‘mislead’ the public? Surely the media wouldn’t cover the truth in any situation.
I'm not so sure it is not punishable because Texas has a common law marriage statute and I believe these FLDS situations could be interpreted as common law marriages. I hope the Texas attorney general is examining this closely and does not wimp out on prosecuting the polygamy itself as they have done in Utah and Arizona (shame on them!). If for any reason Texas' current common law marriage statute is deemed inadequate to cover these situations it should be amended to include them in the definition of polygamy.
Americans once understood that no civilized society could tolerate polygamy due to all the abuses of women and children that inevitably follow in its wake. Examine any society in which polygamy is practiced and tolerated and you will see the barbarous consequences. Have Americans become so addled by relativism and so besotted with individual rights at any and all costs that we are no longer able to sustain a societal consensus against such a disastrous practice as polygamy?
Lol, you don’t understand different cultures do you? You been living in American moral relativism for too long. The answer is no, but if by some chance she went against family policy she would be expelled from the family, all family where everyone is uncle so to speak.
"...Sacred FLDS Tabernacle..."
What makes modern documents and buildings more "Sacred" than toilet paper and chickenhouses?
Different culture. Different morals. Sure she could be cut off from all family if that is the decision, but that decision would never enter her mind. Rare.
“DUDE! Do you realize that that is 21 Mother-in-laws????? “
Well, you know it could be he married 21 sisters and if so, there would be only 1 mother in law.
You never know with these inbreeders.
You’re surely correct, however, legally they could do nothing to her, as she would be of age and making up her own mind. Not the situation in Eldorado, however.
susie
Honestly, I think parents are far better at determining their children’s mates. Well, it couldn’t be worse then the divorce rate in this country now.
lol....
LOL!
NO!
My father would have chosen David Duke for me (no thank you).
I am only pointing out that arranged marriages are commonplace and legal as far as I know. Forgetting about the underage aspects.
Arguably, one mother in law is too many at times.
“Anyone questioning the government is basically a heretic to that revered God for some, and considered vile and repulsive.”
Anyone questioning the actions of the TEXAS CPS without even looking at the facts of the case,
the Laws of the state of TEXAS,
the history of the FLDS,
the convictions of those in the FLDS,
the recent violation of child labor laws by the FLDS,
the ownership of the YFZ RANCH as a TAX FREE MONEY LAUNDERING facility for the UNITED EFFORT PLAN,
and the fact that the YFZ Ranch is not a CHURCH at all (you are not welcome to enter it if you aren’t Warren Jeffs PET).... well, then you are really just a hypocrite.
(and I don’t mean you)
NOBODY ELSE ON THIS FORUM DOES EITHER. (not any I have seen)
” but we all have protections or should have protections from an intrusive government.”
The Intrusion was done by the TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF FAMILY AND WELFARE SERVICES, and then further by a division of that, the CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES.
It is their job to intrude.
It is the law that they can intrude.
They don’t have to have anything but a complaint or suspicion. It can even be an anonymous complaint, or even FAKE.
If they find evidence of a potential crime, they report it.
If they ‘see’ evidence of abuse, or ‘potential’ abuse, they can remove the children.
They did.
Lol. We would be having a different conversation together if that were the case.
OH MY GOSH.
“Weapons of mass destruction?”
Get a grip.
“I’m not so sure it is not punishable because Texas has a common law marriage statute and I believe these FLDS situations could be interpreted as common law marriages. I hope the Texas attorney general is examining this closely and does not wimp out on prosecuting the polygamy itself as they have done in Utah and Arizona (shame on them!). If for any reason Texas’ current common law marriage statute is deemed inadequate to cover these situations it should be amended to include them in the definition of polygamy.
Americans once understood that no civilized society could tolerate polygamy due to all the abuses of women and children that inevitably follow in its wake. Examine any society in which polygamy is practiced and tolerated and you will see the barbarous consequences. Have Americans become so addled by relativism and so besotted with individual rights at any and all costs that we are no longer able to sustain a societal consensus against such a disastrous practice as polygamy?”
That is a good post and I agree that polygamy charges should be pursued, if current law is badly written for that goal, then change the laws.
A competent America can deal with polygamy and as we become less American and more foreign everyday, we better take a stand and start figuring out how to tighten a grip onto our own culture.
We need to have the will to protect our civilization or else the dream dies, and we take on the ugly ways of the lesser cultures.
In a perfect world: Good, loving, sane, intelligent parents could be counted on making the best efforts at choosing good, sane, loving, intelligent spouses for their children.
But such isn’t the case, so really, I’d rather take my chances and blame myself for the catastrophies.
If the female children sleep in the same beds with the ‘mother/wives’, and Daddy comes in to snag wife #3, uh..... well... do I have to say it?
Or do they just conduct all spermings in the bed in the loft of the temple?
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