Posted on 04/28/2008 12:01:40 PM PDT by Delacon
So whats going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I havent seen the dang thing. Ive been reading about it steadily for weeks now though, both pro (including the pieces by David Klinghoffer and Dave Berg on National Review Online) and con, and I cant believe it would yield up many surprises on an actual viewing. Its pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?
I turned over some possibilities, but decisively rejected them all. The first thing that came to mind was Saudi money. Half of the evils and absurdities in our society seem to have a Saudi prince behind them somewhere, and the Wahhabists are, like all fundamentalist Muslims, committed creationists. This doesnt hold water, though. For one thing, Stein is Jewish. For another, he is rich, and doesnt need the money. And for another, the stills and clips I have seen are from a low-budget production. Saudi financing would surely at least have come up with some decent computer graphics. No, Ben Stein is no crook. He must then be foolish; and thats sad, because I now think less of a guy I once admired, and whom my friends admire. Life, its just one darn bubble bursting after another.
To return to the matter of computer graphics for a moment, it seems that the producers of Expelled, rather than go to the trouble and expense of making their own, may have just stolen some. (The creationists have posted a defense here. There will probably be a lawsuit under way, which I shall report back on. Oh, and as I write this, I see a Reuters report that our defenders of faith and morality may have stolen some music too. How many more shoes will drop, I wonder?) It is at any rate clear that they engaged in much deception with the subjects they interviewed for the movie, many of whom are complaining loudly. This, together with much, much else about the movie, can be read about on the Expelled Exposed website put up by the National Center for Science Education, which I urge all interested readers to explore.
These dishonesties do not surprise me. When talking about the creationists to people who dont follow these controversies closely, I have found that the hardest thing to get across is the shifty, low-cunning aspect of the whole modern creationist enterprise. Individual creationists can be very nice people, though they get nicer the further away they are from the full-time core enterprise of modern creationism at the Discovery Institute. The enterprise as a whole, however, really doesnt smell good. You notice this when youre around it a lot. I shall give some more examples in a minute; but what accounts for all this dishonesty and misrepresentation?
My own theory is that the creationists have been morally corrupted by the constant effort of pretending not to be what they are. What they are, as is amply documented, is a pressure group for religious teaching in public schools.
Now, there is nothing wrong with that. We are a nation of pressure groups, and one more would hardly notice. However, since parents who want their kids religiously educated already have plenty of private and parochial schools to choose from (half the kids on my street have attended parochial school), as well as the option of home schooling, now very well organized and supported (and heartily approved of by me: I just wish I knew how they find the time); and since current jurisprudence, how correctly I am not competent to say, regards tax-funded religious instruction as unconstitutional; creationists are a pressure group without hope, if they campaign openly for the thing they want.
Understanding this, the creationists took the morally fatal decision to campaign clandestinely. They overhauled creationism as intelligent design, roped in a handful of eccentric non-Christian cranks keen for a well-funded vehicle to help them push their own flat-earth theories, and set about presenting themselves to the public as alternative science" engaged in a controversy with a closed-minded, reactionary science establishment fearful of new ideas. (Ignoring the fact that without a constant supply of new ideas, there would be nothing for scientists to do.) Nothing to do with religion at all!
I think this willful act of deception has corrupted creationism irredeemably. The old Biblical creationists were, in my opinion, wrong-headed, but they were mostly honest people. The intelligent design crowd lean more in the other direction. Hence the dishonesty and sheer nastiness, even down to plain bad manners, that you keep encountering in ID circles. Its by no means all of them, but its enough to corrupt and poison the creationist enterprise, which might otherwise have added something worthwhile to our national life, if only by way of entertainment value.
This dishonesty showed up very soon after the creationists decided to don the mask of alternative science in the 1990s. A key episode was the Kunming conference of June 1999. In very brief you can read the full story in Forrest and Grosss Creationisms Trojan Horse (A bad book, a very bad book, shuddered the Discovery Institutes Bruce Chapman when he saw it on my desk, like a vampire spotting a clove of garlic), pp.56-66 there is a very interesting bed of extremely old fossils near Kunming, in southern China. Paul Chien, a little-known creationist of Chinese ancestry from San Francisco, acted as a front man for the Discovery Institute to organize a conference in Kunming, bringing in professional paleontologists from China and abroad, but without telling them of the Discovery Institutes involvement. The aim was to produce and then to promote a book containing the conference papers of [creationist] members immediately juxtaposed to those written by respected scientists in the relevant fields. (Forrest & Gross, their italics.) When the real paleontologists found out what was going on, and how they had been brought across China, or around the world, they were not pleased. Embarrassing scenes followed. No book ever appeared.
Examples can be multiplied. The witty and mild-mannered federal Judge Jones, who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller trial in Dover, Pa., felt moved to note that: The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy. The response of the Discovery Institute was to launch sneering, slanderous attacks on the professionalism and competence of Judge Jones (a church-going conservative Republican appointed by President George W. Bush).
So it goes with the stalwart defenders of truth and morality over at the Discovery Institute. So it goes with Ben Stein, apparently, since he has signed up with these mountebanks, for reasons that remain mysterious to me. The misrepresentations in Expelled are far too numerous for me to list here, and the task is unnecessary since others have done it. The aforementioned Expelled Exposed website is a great resource. Biologist P. Z. Myers, in a less organized way, has been pointing up the errors and deceptions in Expelled since the wretched thing hove into view. (Here he links to a whole stack of reviews, including a couple of positives.) Other science-literate bloggers have been weighing in, often very angrily. One of my favorite comments came from Pixy Misa (Andrew Mazels) who correctly called Ben Stein's accusing Darwin of responsibility for the Holocaust a blood libel on science.
I would actually go further than that, to something like a blood libel on Western Civilization. One of the most-quoted remarks by one conservative writer about another was Evelyn Waugh's on Kipling. It bears quoting again.
[Kipling] was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.
Western civilization has many glories. There are the legacies of the ancients, in literature and thought. There are the late-medieval cathedrals, those huge miracles of stone, statuary, and spiritual devotion. There is painting, music, the orderly cityscapes of Renaissance Italy, the peaceful, self-governed townships of old New England and the Frontier, the steel marvels of the early industrial revolution, our parliaments and courts of law, our great universities with their spirit of restless inquiry.
And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.
If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrès new book about the history of quantum mechanics. Its a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a warm book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.
Gino Segrès book and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A thank you wouldnt go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.
And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when hes not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!
The intelligent design hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)
And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called the work of centuries would you like to abandon for sentimental qualms? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!
For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.
I guess you're a history buff. Who are all the "eminent" historians with respect to the origins of the Nazis' desire to create a super race and what are all the papers, books etc. they've written about it? And what makes those particular ones eminent?
It seems as if hes made the focus of his short academic career writing about Darwinism and the Nazis.
What's that got to do with anything? You keep making these completely irrelevant points. Have any "eminent" historians refuted what he wrote? You're grasping at straws. "His career is short, so his research doesn't count."
Lets say some of the freaks in the Nazi Party were intent on creating the Super Race. They wouldnt look to Darwin. They would look to Gregor Mendel, the father of genetics. And perhaps they did.
Now you're just creating your own theory unsupported by any facts whatsoever. The very thing you accused Stein, and apparently also Weikart and all the other historians who recommend his book, of doing, without having read his book of course. Is there any evidence of any advocates of eugenics of the first half of the 20th century mentioning Mendel? In fact by your "logic" you're now smearing genetics. I guess smearing genetics is okay, it's just smearing Darwin that's verboten.
The Nazis were not trying to craft the Super Race through random mutations and natural selection of the effects of that.
Another irrelevant point. They believed certain races already were superior. So they had to get rid of inferior races. You don't need to use random mutations to get rid of inferior races. You just get rid of them. Eugenics is artificial selection.
You’re not worth arguing with, simply because you can’t do it honestly.
I was not attacking genetics. I was making the point that Nazis were not using Darwin’s theory to create a master race. Far from me grasping at straws, you and Stein are.
The Nazi philosophy regarding race was based on eugenics, which was essentially a philosophy drawing from the science of genetics and some conclusions drawn from Darwin’s studies regarding which adaptations provided an advantage to a species. You can no more blame Darwin for the Nazis than you can blame Mendel, or the chemists throughout history that allowed them to formulate Zyklon B.
I’m through with you and this thread. Declare victory over me and go have a parade.
The point is, Congress is empowered by the Constitution to issue copyrights and patents. The issue is the protection of property rights, that being how Congress is to promote science and the useful arts. Apparently, your hubris wont permit you to admit that your contrary assertion is contextually absurd. If your misbegotten logic were pursued, we would have to conclude that Congress is forbidden to grant copyrights for the materials of religious authors or associations because that would promote religion.
The other poster claimed "science is a religion" - I.8.8. is my evidence against that assertion.
Your evidence is a joke. The other poster made a logical assertion. Let him defend the logic of his assertion, and you criticize the logic of his assertion. Or, there are establishment cases you can cite. Both avenues are arguable, but to cite a constitutional clause protecting the right to private property by enumerating a Congressional power to grant patents and copyrights is so bizarrely irrational that it misses the mark by an intergalactic distance. It would be useless, I suppose, to refer to Jeffersons observation that we are all imperiled when we try to make of the Constitution a blank slate. Your frenzied sense of invincible virtue would not permit you to see the truth of his point, or to admit to it if you did.
Your postings have given me doubts about your truthfulness.
Treason! cried the king. Blasphemy! shouted the mufti. Unprincipled Liar! snarled the Master of the Universe. Does your superiorist attitude go so far that you assume your word is undoubted, and that any dissent can only be explained out of wickedness? Do you think your bullying can impose silence by the sheer force of your personality? Bring paper, pencil, and a timer, if you wish to administer a test. See who answers the bell and acknowledges your authority to give it.
In a debate over whether or not the Founders would agree that "science is a religion", the means by which Congress may promote science are irrelevant. The fact that Congress has such power with regard to science - whereas it does not have such power with regard to religion - is the point. Maybe this will help you:
Congress shall have Power... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Simple question: Do you think the Founders would agree with the other poster's claim that "science is a religion"?
The "other poster" made a logical assertion. Let him defend the logic of his assertion, and you criticize the logic of his assertion.
He never replied, so perhaps he saw his mistake. You, OTOH, can't seem to stop shooting yourself in the foot.
Do you think your bullying can impose silence by the sheer force of your personality?
Your question makes no sense. I've been trying to get you speak up on a simple question, but it is you who insist on silence.
Bring paper, pencil, and a timer, if you wish to administer a test. See who answers the bell and acknowledges your authority to give it.
Son, you've been taking the character test since your #366. You received your grade in my last post.
Not when someone is trying to make more out of a constitutional provision than the text allows or the creators intended. You cant use the patent and copyright clause to argue that Congress is empowered to promote science in a way it is not empowered to promote religion when both science materials and religious materials alike may be issued copyrights, and Congress may not do anything for the one that it cannot do for the other under the authority of this clause. Youre trying to give a significance and a cast to the clause that it simply does not possess. You might as well try to fit a tutu on a water buffalo.
Maybe this will help you:
And you go on to cite the Constitutional clause on patents and copyrights, then follow with the establishment provision of the First Amendment, as though either has much of anything to do with the other (see above). Youve acquired an obsessive-compulsive fixation on a connection between the Establishment Clause and the Article I clause on patents and copyrights that is non-existent, and would be pointless if it did exist.
All youll need to do is to suck up to the Stalinists, the insane anarchists, and all the other Marxist/Socialist crazies who infest our university campi like maggots on a carcass, and they will be pleased to confer a special status on Science and provide it with extra funding. You will have to go along with the Global Warming (Climate Change) con game, and all the other scientific funding for political purposes, but there should be plenty left over, and youll never have to worry about the intrusion of religion. The useful Arts may provide some competition, but that will consist mostly of Diversity studies, Black studies, Feminine studies, and the like. Those are going to happen no matter what you do, so you might as well relax and make things easy for yourself. As compensation for the junk studies that passes for culture on the college campus of today, you will see the same continuing decline of Western Civilization cultural influence that has been going on for the last fifty years. One more generation and Science should altogether be entirely safe from the insidious influence of Western Civilization.
The Constitution is neither a living document (it never was) nor an enduring document (I want to say it once was, but I guess thats not strictly true since it no longer endures). It is now simply an historical document, of some slight occasional interest as a curiosity. But do not despair. You can still use it from time to time to achieve your ends (youll have to tolerate others doing the same, but dont worry a majority of nine black robes should keep you reasonably safe). It will be another generation or so before there is a serious push to do away with it entirely.
Simple question: Do you think the Founders would agree with the other poster's claim that "science is a religion"?
Simple answer: I thought I had made it clear that I do not intend to go galloping down the sidetracks you set up for me.
He [the other poster] never replied, so perhaps he saw his mistake.
Perhaps he did. I wont pretend to read his mind, but it strikes me that he never intended to frame his remark in a constitutional context, and when he saw what a maladroit mess you were making out of the proposition, he may have decided that the candle was not worth the game.
You, OTOH, can't seem to stop shooting yourself in the foot.
Im not the one trying to fit a tutu on a water buffalo.
Son, you've been taking the character test since your #366.
Spoken like an elitist who has made a fool of himself and hasnt the sense to know when to make as quiet and as dignified an exit as he can manage. Youve not the gravitas, either intellectually or morally, to presume to administer me a test or to issue a grade. Nor do you have the cachet to pretend youre the alpha male in this pack. All you can do is try to usurp a status you dont possess or deserve, by using the language of a superior addressing his junior. You may think that it gives you the appearance of haut monde, but all it does is unmask your pretentiousness. To this point in the discussion, youve done nothing but display most of the least appealing traits of a Liberal: assuming an air of inherited superiority; changing the subject (presumably to one more to your comfort); misdirection (here! here! look over here! dont look over there!); shifting the burden (in the hopes of forcing the other fellow to defend or explain the issue, freeing you to attack); ignoring the crucial question; vilifying your correspondent; positing a distinction possessing no difference; invoking the automatic disqualifier; and the scrambling of meanings and terms. All in the finest tradition of the Goebbels model of avoiding the point.
I, on the other hand, have no need to administer you a character test even if I were presumptuous enough to do so. Youve laid it out there for all to see without the need of my participation.
This thread has gone to crickets. Further discussion will get us nowhere. You may have the last word if your ego permits you to think that its OK for you to inflict further pain on this forum.
Good night Mrs. Malaprop (and Dr. Stadler), where ever you are.
Copyrighted religious materials are original works by human authors, and fall under the useful Arts provision. By the same token, a book that advocates laws to restrict religion could obtain a copyright under the same useful Arts provision. The clause was not meant to support or oppose any particular viewpoint or outcome. It was simply meant to promote the useful Arts. It is not valid to read any promotion or restriction of religion into I.8.8.
OTOH, the same cannot be said for science. The clause specifically names Science as a thing to be promoted.
I wrote: Simple question: Do you think the Founders would agree with the other poster's claim that "science is a religion"?
You replied: Simple answer: I thought I had made it clear that I do not intend to go galloping down the sidetracks you set up for me.
I'm adding intellectual cowardice to your evaluation.
Wrong Target [John Derbyshire]
A reader:
John,
I think you and other conservative critics of Ben Stein's movie are overlooking a significant part of the damage this film is doing: it diverts attention away from the areas of the academy, such as English, Poli Sci, Sociology, gender studies, black studies, etc. that really have become real cesspools of leftist dogma and actually are dire need of reform.
Conservatives who care about higher education ought to be scrutinizing the pseudo-scholars in these disciplines and leaving the real scholars in the natural sciences alone. Ben Stein is diverting resources away from where they could actually be doing some good.
Worse, the fact that conservatives are attacking the natural sciences makes them less credible when they call for reform in the humanities and social sciences. Efforts to promote Intelligent Design are being used as an argument against the Academic Bill of Rights in Florida, for example.
The damage Ben Stein is doing to efforts to reform the academy is incalculable and perhaps the worst effect of his movie.
I agree. Part of the anger that I, and a lot of other science-literate conservatives, feel towards Stein arises from his joining in the creationists' attempts to breach an academic barrier we've put our faith in, perhaps complacently. While every kind of lunacy has run rampant through our Humanities departments this past couple of decades, we've taken consolation in the fact that science and math departments have been able to go quietly about their work without any of the lunacy really affecting them. You can have Gay Legal Studies or Latina History, but Feminist Differential Geometry is much harder to get started. Being firmly in touch with empirical reality, or in the case of math with rigorous proof procedures, the sciences can't easily be disturbed by politicized crackpottery.
Stein's movie is an open assault on that barrier, an attempt to bring over what Roger Kimball calls "experiments against reality" from the Humanities departments into the sciences. It is not a coincidence that the current strain of creationism exemplified by Expelled gives off a strong whiff of postmodernism: ruthless power-holders imposing their own version of reality, etc. "When the religious Right adopts the epistemology of the multicultural Left that truth is relative there goes the Enlightenment " That's a surviving fragment from Noam Scheiber's piece on this in The Australian a couple of years ago, the piece itself apparently no longer available.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjhlNzU1MWJlYWM2OWRhNGJmMzg0M2E1M2U2Yjg4Zjg=
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