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A Blood Libel on Our Civilization. Can I expell Expelled?
National Review Online ^ | April 28, 2008 | John Derbyshire

Posted on 04/28/2008 12:01:40 PM PDT by Delacon

What on earth has happened to Ben Stein? He and I go back a long way. No, I’ve never met the guy. Back in the 1970s, though, when The American Spectator was in its broadsheet format, I would always turn first to Ben Stein’s diary, which appeared in every issue. He was funny and clever and worldly in a way I liked a lot. The very few times I’ve caught him on-screen, he seems to have had a nice line in deadpan self-deprecation, also something I like. Though I’ve never met him, I know people who know him, and they all speak well of him. Larry Kudlow, whose opinion is worth a dozen average opinions on any topic, thinks the world of Ben.

So what’s going on here with this stupid Expelled movie? No, I haven’t seen the dang thing. I’ve been reading about it steadily for weeks now though, both pro (including the pieces by David Klinghoffer and Dave Berg on National Review Online) and con, and I can’t believe it would yield up many surprises on an actual viewing. It’s pretty plain that the thing is creationist porn, propaganda for ignorance and obscurantism. How could a guy like this do a thing like that?

I turned over some possibilities, but decisively rejected them all. The first thing that came to mind was Saudi money. Half of the evils and absurdities in our society seem to have a Saudi prince behind them somewhere, and the Wahhabists are, like all fundamentalist Muslims, committed creationists. This doesn’t hold water, though. For one thing, Stein is Jewish. For another, he is rich, and doesn’t need the money. And for another, the stills and clips I have seen are from a low-budget production. Saudi financing would surely at least have come up with some decent computer graphics. No, Ben Stein is no crook. He must then be foolish; and that’s sad, because I now think less of a guy I once admired, and whom my friends admire. Life, it’s just one darn bubble bursting after another.

To return to the matter of computer graphics for a moment, it seems that the producers of Expelled, rather than go to the trouble and expense of making their own, may have just stolen some. (The creationists have posted a defense here. There will probably be a lawsuit under way, which I shall report back on. Oh, and as I write this, I see a Reuters report that our defenders of faith and morality may have stolen some music too. How many more shoes will drop, I wonder?) It is at any rate clear that they engaged in much deception with the subjects they interviewed for the movie, many of whom are complaining loudly. This, together with much, much else about the movie, can be read about on the Expelled Exposed website put up by the National Center for Science Education, which I urge all interested readers to explore.

These dishonesties do not surprise me. When talking about the creationists to people who don’t follow these controversies closely, I have found that the hardest thing to get across is the shifty, low-cunning aspect of the whole modern creationist enterprise. Individual creationists can be very nice people, though they get nicer the further away they are from the full-time core enterprise of modern creationism at the Discovery Institute. The enterprise as a whole, however, really doesn’t smell good. You notice this when you’re around it a lot. I shall give some more examples in a minute; but what accounts for all this dishonesty and misrepresentation?

My own theory is that the creationists have been morally corrupted by the constant effort of pretending not to be what they are. What they are, as is amply documented, is a pressure group for religious teaching in public schools.

Now, there is nothing wrong with that. We are a nation of pressure groups, and one more would hardly notice. However, since parents who want their kids religiously educated already have plenty of private and parochial schools to choose from (half the kids on my street have attended parochial school), as well as the option of home schooling, now very well organized and supported (and heartily approved of by me: I just wish I knew how they find the time); and since current jurisprudence, how correctly I am not competent to say, regards tax-funded religious instruction as unconstitutional; creationists are a pressure group without hope, if they campaign openly for the thing they want.

Understanding this, the creationists took the morally fatal decision to campaign clandestinely. They overhauled creationism as “intelligent design,” roped in a handful of eccentric non-Christian cranks keen for a well-funded vehicle to help them push their own flat-earth theories, and set about presenting themselves to the public as “alternative science" engaged in a “controversy” with a closed-minded, reactionary “science establishment” fearful of new ideas. (Ignoring the fact that without a constant supply of new ideas, there would be nothing for scientists to do.) Nothing to do with religion at all!

I think this willful act of deception has corrupted creationism irredeemably. The old Biblical creationists were, in my opinion, wrong-headed, but they were mostly honest people. The “intelligent design” crowd lean more in the other direction. Hence the dishonesty and sheer nastiness, even down to plain bad manners, that you keep encountering in ID circles. It’s by no means all of them, but it’s enough to corrupt and poison the creationist enterprise, which might otherwise have added something worthwhile to our national life, if only by way of entertainment value.

This dishonesty showed up very soon after the creationists decided to don the mask of “alternative science” in the 1990s. A key episode was the Kunming conference of June 1999. In very brief — you can read the full story in Forrest and Gross’s Creationisms Trojan Horse (“A bad book, a very bad book,” shuddered the Discovery Institute’s Bruce Chapman when he saw it on my desk, like a vampire spotting a clove of garlic), pp.56-66 — there is a very interesting bed of extremely old fossils near Kunming, in southern China. Paul Chien, a little-known creationist of Chinese ancestry from San Francisco, acted as a front man for the Discovery Institute to organize a conference in Kunming, bringing in professional paleontologists from China and abroad, but without telling them of the Discovery Institute’s involvement. The aim was “to produce and then to promote a book containing the conference papers of [creationist] members immediately juxtaposed to those written by respected scientists in the relevant fields.” (Forrest & Gross, their italics.) When the real paleontologists found out what was going on, and how they had been brought across China, or around the world, they were not pleased. Embarrassing scenes followed. No book ever appeared.


Examples can be multiplied. The witty and mild-mannered federal Judge Jones, who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller trial in Dover, Pa., felt moved to note that: “The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.” The response of the Discovery Institute was to launch sneering, slanderous attacks on the professionalism and competence of Judge Jones (a church-going conservative Republican appointed by President George W. Bush).

So it goes with the stalwart defenders of truth and morality over at the Discovery Institute. So it goes with Ben Stein, apparently, since he has signed up with these mountebanks, for reasons that remain mysterious to me. The misrepresentations in Expelled are far too numerous for me to list here, and the task is unnecessary since others have done it. The aforementioned Expelled Exposed website is a great resource. Biologist P. Z. Myers, in a less organized way, has been pointing up the errors and deceptions in Expelled since the wretched thing hove into view. (Here he links to a whole stack of reviews, including a couple of positives.) Other science-literate bloggers have been weighing in, often very angrily. One of my favorite comments came from “Pixy Misa” (Andrew Mazels) who correctly called Ben Stein's accusing Darwin of responsibility for the Holocaust “a blood libel on science.”

I would actually go further than that, to something like “a blood libel on Western Civilization.” One of the most-quoted remarks by one conservative writer about another was Evelyn Waugh's on Kipling. It bears quoting again.

[Kipling] was a conservative in the sense that he believed civilization to be something laboriously achieved which was only precariously defended. He wanted to see the defences fully manned and he hated the liberals because he thought them gullible and feeble, believing in the easy perfectibility of man and ready to abandon the work of centuries for sentimental qualms.

Western civilization has many glories. There are the legacies of the ancients, in literature and thought. There are the late-medieval cathedrals, those huge miracles of stone, statuary, and spiritual devotion. There is painting, music, the orderly cityscapes of Renaissance Italy, the peaceful, self-governed townships of old New England and the Frontier, the steel marvels of the early industrial revolution, our parliaments and courts of law, our great universities with their spirit of restless inquiry.

And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.

If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrè’s new book about the history of quantum mechanics. It’s a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a “warm” book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.

Gino Segrè’s book — and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility — from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A “thank you” wouldn’t go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.

And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world — that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when he’s not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: “Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!”

The “intelligent design” hoax is not merely non-science, nor even merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. It is an appeal to barbarism, to the sensibilities of those Apaches, made by people who lack the imaginative power to know the horrors of true barbarism. (A thing that cannot be said of Darwin. See Chapter X of Voyage of the Beagle.)

And yes: When our greatest achievements are blamed for our greatest moral failures, that is a blood libel against Western civilization itself. What next, Ben? Johann Sebastian Bach ran a slave-trading enterprise on the side? Kepler started the Thirty Years War? Tolstoy instigated the Kishinev Pogrom? Dante was a bag-man for the Golden Horde? Why not go smash a few windows in Chartres Cathedral, Ben? Break wind in a chamber-music concert? Splash some red paint around in the Uffizi? Which other of our civilizational achievements would you like to sneer at? What else from what Waugh called “the work of centuries” would you like to “abandon … for sentimental qualms”? You call yourself a conservative? Feugh!

For shame, Ben Stein, for shame. Stand up for your civilization, man! and all its glories. The barbarians are at the gate, as they always have been. Come man the defenses with us, leaving the liars and fools to their lies and folly.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benstein; creationism; derbyshire; directedpanspermia; expelled; intelligentdesign; moviereview; panspermia
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To: Doe Eyes

Hardly, but you missed the point...don’t get so defensive or assume that I’m anti-darwin/evolution.

My point was that Hitler used Darwin, much like he read scripture to the masses at Nurmeberg, but that didn’t make him a Christian either.

But just because Hitler used Darwin and those that are anti-ID, and/or hate Ben Stein for pointing it out, did NOT mean Hitler didn’t exploit Darwin either!

He did.

What the Wright brothers and 9-11 had to do with anything, well, you’ll no doubt submit a scientific paper for peer review?

Right? :)


221 posted on 04/28/2008 5:57:08 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
If it’s not science, I’m all good but don’t come up with absurd statements like “it’s not science” implying it can NEVER be proven or never be scientific, when EVERYONE KNOWS science is all too often concensus, is very fluid and has yet to be determined, defined, or has had it’s final chapter written let alone etched in stone.

In order for ID to be science, it needs to offer facts to support its conclusion. Until it does so, saying that it COULD be science if it ever offered testable facts for its hypothesis means nothing.

I could be President if I ever got elected, but that doesn't make me President now.

222 posted on 04/28/2008 6:01:29 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Notary Sojac; Soliton
I actually have enormous respect for the Christian and Jewish faiths, in particular when they stand against the power of the modern state

. It's just that I personally don't believe in the supernatural, and want science to continue to be characterized by an exploration of the natural world and the natural laws that drive it.

You might be surprised to learn how many conservatives think the same way.

I think that way too.


Count me in as well.
223 posted on 04/28/2008 6:04:20 PM PDT by Caramelgal (Rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings, not on the words or superficial interpretations)
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To: Dog Gone
In order for ID to be science, it needs to offer facts to support its conclusion. Until it does so, saying that it COULD be science if it ever offered testable facts for its hypothesis means nothing.

I can offer a hypothesis that sometime in the future, the physicists will manage time travel, and inadvertently introduce modern microbial life into Earth's ancient past. I don't expect I'll be getting any research grants to study it, though.

224 posted on 04/28/2008 6:07:23 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tpanther
Hardly, but you missed the point...

In rereading your original post I agree.

I do contend that Darwin is no more responsible for Hilter's actions, than the Wright brothers are for Mohammad Atta and company on 9/11.

225 posted on 04/28/2008 6:10:13 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: tpanther
Here is what Expelled is, or perhaps should have been, about. Academic freedom.
226 posted on 04/28/2008 6:10:41 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (El Nino is climate, La Nina is weather.)
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To: Dog Gone

Where in the movie does stein say Darwinsists are Nazis? What Stein does do in the movie is, according to conservapedia, the following:

The film shows the historical connection between the ideology of “survival of the fittest” and the Holocaust. By the 1920s, German textbooks were teaching evolutionary concepts including heredity and racial hygiene. The Kaiser Wilhelm Institute of Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics was founded in 1927; in 1933, Germany passed the Law for the Protection of Heredity Health. Josef Mengele studied anthropology and paleontology and received his Ph.D. for his thesis entitled “Racial Morphological Research on the Lower Jaw Section of Four Racial Groups.” In 1937, Mengele was recommended for and received a position as a research assistant with the Third Reich Institute for Hereditary, Biology and Racial Purity at the University of Frankfort, and subsequently became the “Angel of Death” for directing the operation of gas chambers of the Holocaust and for conducting horrific medical experiments on inmates in pursuit of eugenics. Evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould admitted: “The Nazi racial hygiene program began with involuntary sterilizations and ended with genocide.”[7]

One academic says in the film, “While I would never want to indict a theory for how someone misused it ... [yet] views of human nature that lower our estimation of what we are have consequences to how people treat each other.” [8]

Steven C. Meyer said, “In Darwinism there’s a denial of any intrinsic dignity for human persons. We are the result of undirected natural processes that did not have us in mind”[9]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed


227 posted on 04/28/2008 6:15:17 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
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To: Paridel

Well said. From a yankee episcopalian.


228 posted on 04/28/2008 6:16:30 PM PDT by Delacon ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." H. L. Mencken)
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To: tacticalogic

The funny thing is that evolution would work with that hypothesis.

But a hypothesis sounds all “scientific” when it’s nothing more than a suggested explanation or even a conclusion, which then needs to be evaluated, tested, verified, before it can be considered a fact.

ID is indeed a hypothesis. That I am 200 times smarter than anyone who ever lived on the planet is a hypothesis. I’ll offer the posts I’ve made here at FR, except for the ones when I had been imbibing, or mad, or just wrong, as strong evidence of my hypothesis.

I’ve just offered more evidence than ID proponents have offered for theirs.


229 posted on 04/28/2008 6:17:33 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: HerrBlucher

In his book “From Darwin to Hitler” Richard Weickart lists 6 key reaons why Darwinsim lead to the Holocaust:

1. Darwin argued that humans were not qualitatively different from animals. The leading Darwinist in Germany, Ernst Haeckel, attacked the “anthropocentric” view that humans are unique and special.

2. Darwin denied that humans had an immaterial soul. He and other Darwinists believed that all aspects of the human psyche, including reason, morality, aesthetics, and even religion, originated through completely natural processes.

3. Darwin and other Darwinists recognized that if morality was the product of mindless evolution, then there is no objective, fixed morality and thus no objective human rights. Darwin stated in his Autobiography that one “can have for his rule of life, as far as I can see, only to follow those impulses and instincts which are the strongest or which seem to him the best ones.”

4. Since evolution requires variation, Darwin and other early Darwinists believed in human inequality. Haeckel emphasized inequality to such as extent that he even classified human races as twelve distinct species and claimed that the lowest humans were closer to primates than to the highest humans.

5. Darwin and most Darwinists believe that humans are locked in an ineluctable struggle for existence. Darwin claimed in The Descent of Man that because of this struggle, “[a]t some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races.”

6. Darwinism overturned the Judeo-Christian view of death as an enemy, construing it instead as a beneficial engine of progress. Darwin remarked in The Origin of Species, “Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows.”


230 posted on 04/28/2008 6:19:48 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
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To: HerrBlucher

Stein doesn’t say that evolutionists are Nazis. He blames Nazis on Darwin.

It’s a distinction without much of a difference, which is what he intended.

Damn that Darwin for studying finches in the Galapogos Islands. If he hadn’t done that, there would have been no Holocaust.

Jews and arabs would be holding hands and singing in the Middle East.


231 posted on 04/28/2008 6:23:24 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: tpanther

Yes you did throw in the nazi analogies to me. As for Derbyshire, I know that he has been swatting out ID fires on the blogosphere since it began. This is my opinion but, he has the closest views to the Buckley tradition that National Review has these days.


232 posted on 04/28/2008 6:25:42 PM PDT by Delacon ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." H. L. Mencken)
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To: Delacon
R.R. Wilson was a Scientist. It was Postore who was a U.S. Senator. It was Senator Pastore’s job to ask about the possible value of the particle accelerator towards national defense. Perhaps Wilson was a bit defensive about it having been part of the Manhattan Project (that was the Nuke Program to those of you in Rio Linda); he bristled at the idea that Science is only good for making better bombs.

Wilson said what Derb was going for. Science is an art, and it is something that we as Americans can be proud of being among the best and the brightest at. And unlike many other arts that sit in one place and brighten only the countenance of its host nation and those lucky enough to visit, the currency of Scientific knowledge enriches all nations.

233 posted on 04/28/2008 6:29:40 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: Dog Gone
Stein doesn’t say that evolutionists are Nazis. He blames Nazis on Darwin

He shows with historical facts how Darwinism led to the Holocaust. His assertion is correct. Further documentation for this can be found in Weickarts "From Darwin to Hitler."

234 posted on 04/28/2008 6:31:39 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
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To: HerrBlucher
Can you provide a single quote from Hitler extolling the Nazi masses to slaughter Jews based upon Evolution?

It is well known that he used anti-Capitalist rhetoric, conspiracy theories, and his own twisted view of Christianity; yet there seems to be NOT A SINGLE INSTANCE where he used Evolution as an excuse to kill Jews.

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago — a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.” Adolf Hitler

See what a shoddy tactic guilt by association is when it is our own ox that is being gored?

Was “Darwinism” responsible for the many pogroms against Jews that took place throughout European history?

What the word “ghetto” invented only after Darwin, as a word to denote where to allow the Jews to live?

Was the word “pogrom” only invented after Darwin to denote the widespread practice of European “Christians” killing of Jews?

Hitler inherited a great tradition of hating and killing Jews that went on long before Darwin published his Scientific theory.

235 posted on 04/28/2008 6:36:29 PM PDT by allmendream (Life begins at the moment of contraception. ;))
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To: jwalsh07
“Natural selection decreases genetic variance.”

Not that easy. Only locally. Genetic dominance causes some species to flee the area and find dominance in another area and at the same time some to settle and be susceptible to other specie's domination.

“Find some other mechanisms, they abound.”

Can you list these abounding mechanisms? I mean other that ID.

236 posted on 04/28/2008 6:37:48 PM PDT by Delacon ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." H. L. Mencken)
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To: Dog Gone

Oh good...well I’m glad you made sure I defined theory as you saw fit! WHEW!

I’d hate to know what would become of us had you not made sure!

All kidding aside...I think it would behoove you to study those that are proponents of ID, and those that are dead set against it.

And which side wants it “my way or the highway”. I just don’t see it so much as “right or wrong” on a subject so broad as science!

I think you’ll find that the ones who believe in ID also, for the most part, have no problem with others that don’t want to even consider ID for whatever their reasons, are free to continue to explore the THEORY of evolution as they see fit. IN FACT, I think most would be fine with both theories. I myself see God using parts of evolution in His grand design.

The reverse I think you’ll also find to be true, but not as frequently, and RARELY from those in control and are terrified of losing such control and/or are literally threatened with losing their status. This is true about ID, conservative ideas like abortion, gun ownership and the like.

And you’ll often find science isn’t always their motive any more thantheir opponents are either! There are those in between, but MY argument is don’t shut down the debate forever! A healthy debate is often all we have at the moment!

If we traveled back in time, and had our cell phones with us, and talked with each other it would be considered science fiction, even further back it would be magic, and further still witchcraft.

Put it this way....the left is so deranged....they go so far as to not allow teachers to make a simple statement like: “ID is not going to be part of the science curriculum, although we realize people do accept this as scientific theory, and there are books in the school library exploring this, but THIS school will not address ID. Not scientifically.”

Even THIS was too threatening in one school district! It’s VERY clear it’s not about science all too often!

These are the very same NEA types that are so insecure that “Christmas” is too offensive in schools too!

So young children are merely taught more intolerance and many, since religious studies are disallowed in liberal run failed public schools, are left wondering which is ultimately the truth? Parents, church and God on Sundays or during the week at home, OR schools, the NEA, liberally programmed teachers and science; away from home during the week!

It’s just not reasonable.

Ultimately science can not claim ownership of creation alone. And to squash that debate puts it at clear odds with other disciplines, history, philosphy, religious studies, WHEN ultimately it’s allowed in higher education, etc.

I’m helping my 2nd grader read a book now entitled: “GOD, WHY ARE THERE SO MANY STARS”?

Sadly, I’ll also have to explain that eventually, the science curriculum at school is at odds with God and why it is so.

And how this fact has nothing to do with science!


237 posted on 04/28/2008 6:40:31 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: HerrBlucher
He shows with historical facts how Darwinism led to the Holocaust. His assertion is correct. Further documentation for this can be found in Weickarts "From Darwin to Hitler."

I hate to burst your bubble, but you or Weickart saying it is so, doesn't mean it is so.

And frankly, it has nothing to do with whether evolution occurred.

It's a ridiculous smear that has no scientific merit and is meant only to accomplish a very poorly done "guilt by association" argument.

Let's just say Darwin was the first Nazi. Okay, now what?

What does that have to do with his scientific deductions?

Why even make the association? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE. It's a smear, utterly false, but one you like. That's what it has to do with science.

238 posted on 04/28/2008 6:44:30 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
It doesn't work that way among thinking people

I KNEW you couldn't get through it without pulling the "I'm smarter" arrogance card.

Nope, didn't say Stein couldn't be criticized, but you JUST CAN'T HELP YOURSELVES, can you?

239 posted on 04/28/2008 6:46:02 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: allmendream

I confused the two but I gotta say that Wilson was the statesman in that exchange.


240 posted on 04/28/2008 6:48:44 PM PDT by Delacon ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." H. L. Mencken)
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