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Who knows… We do.
Samson Blinded ^ | April 18 2008 | Anon.

Posted on 04/22/2008 6:54:26 AM PDT by forkinsocket

Jews believe in the peace for various reasons. Some Jews are plainly self-hating, and just want a trouble for the Jewish state. Others are too tired of war, and just want to close their eyes to see the ivory tower of peace and happy relations between Jews, Egyptians, Iranians and whoever else. Some are primitive rationalists – look at the numbers of Jews in the utopian movements such as the communist one – and believe that every human problem, however immensely complex, can be reduced to a formula, discussed, and settled. Some politicians are crooks who use peace process to fool the masses into electing them. Some, notably the security establishment officials, see clearly that military methods fail to solve the problem, and opt for peace settlement. They just don’t realize that even in mathematics, and surely in social relations, some problems are inherently unsolvable. Or it may be the other way around: the leftist Israeli establishment appoints the brainwashed ultra-leftists for security positions, and naturally they support the hollow peace.

So instead of seeking an immediate solution, which ought to be wrong, Jews must accept the reality of intermittent low-level conflict which would drag on for the foreseeable future. We really don’t know what would happen in a few decades. Improvements in nuclear power generation can devaluate oil, causing immense poverty and hunger in overpopulated Arab countries. Such a scenario would increase the number of desperate terrorists but diminish the threat by impoverished regular Arab armies.

Arabs might get nuclear weapons, and surely leak them to terrorists who might or might not detonate them in Israel. That threat would only increase if peace agreements are signed, as Israel will find it diplomatically hard to preempt against friendly Arabs’ nuclear facilities.

Arabs might breed in Israel to the third of voters, join coalition with Jewish ultra-left and non-Jewish parties, and vote Jewish state out of existence, thus solving the problem of coexistence with Arabs. Or Jews might drive the hostile elements out of Israel.

There are so many unknown variables in the peace process that trying to predict it amounts to nonsense. Some things, however, are easy to understand. The Arabs don’t need peace with Israel: both peace and its absence are fine with them. They don’t need Israel’s assistance and don’t fear her attacks. Peace treaty won’t change the Arab behavior: they will continue supporting anti-Israeli terrorists if only to drain their countries of radicals and won’t entrust Israel to be a vizier of Muslim funds (economic cooperation). The only substantial economic feature that would come out of Israeli-Arab peace is heavy investment by Muslims in the politically sensitive Israeli real estate, the process which is well underway now and only waiting to be legalized.

Arabs, being completely indifferent to the peace process, offer Israel no concessions: Judea and Samaria must be abandoned, Jerusalem divided, and the refugees – compensated, with some of them allowed returning to Israel. That’s not really a peace plan, but an odd demand for capitulation of a victorious power to the defeated aggressors.

Israel, on the contrary, gives way continuously and receives nothing in return. Arabs did not reciprocate the evacuation of Jewish settlements from Gaza, a major step which divided Jewish nation and left a scar for decades. Rather, Arabs intensified their attacks on Israel. Superficially, that applies to Palestinian militants only, but they enjoy support of every major Muslim state: Syria (weapons), Iran (money and training), Egypt (logistics), and Saudi Arabia (money and diplomatic support).

Back in 1972, Sadat offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for the Sinai and the Golan Heights, with no heed paid to the Palestinian state. Recently, Saudis offered Israel peace with all Arabs in return for Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem. Now Israel negotiates with the Palestinians minute details of transferring them Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem without expecting reciprocal peace with Arabs countries. The terms become progressively worse.

But the real peace problem, it’s not without, it’s within Israel. Israeli Arabs form a third of Israel’s young and absolute majority in several regions. The Jewish state now abandons religiously, historically, and strategically important lands to the Palestinian state so as not to be swarmed by two million Arabs living there. Reduced to the nine-mile-wide beachside state, Israel will be swarmed by her own Arabs – who accept no peace process. It is an official policy of the PLO – indeed, a democratic maxim – that the Palestinians will breed to majority in Israel and then vote to unify it with the West Bank Palestine. Moderates among Palestinians proclaim they have no problem with Jews living in the resulting Arab state.

Time solves the insolvable problems. Communism vanished from the book of time, leftist terrorism of 1970s ran to the end, and Islamic terrorism won’t be eternal. Radical ideas do not last long as burning societies fall back into tranquility. The current levels of Palestinian terrorism are artificial, entirely propped by Beilin-Peres policies which brought the defeated PLO from Tunisia to the West Bank, enthroned it, subsidized heavily, and promoted internationally as a peace partner. So a shabby cat felt itself a lion. Palestinians support fighting Israel for two reasons: hope and hopelessness. A hope to prevail, and daily hopelessness of their lives. Both can be solved, by the overwhelming force and emigration, respectively. The Muslim Brotherhood, PLO, Hamas, in turn became political organizations; other guerrillas will follow the same road. Palestinians will always remain hostile to Israel, as Jews took over what the Palestinians think is their land. Such hostility would translate into low-level sabotage, but not a meaningful war.

The peace process lacks a historical precedent. Never did hostile states negotiated peace for decades under fire. Peace never came through negotiations, but only through one side’s defeat. America negotiated with Vietnam for decades, but Vietnam was not at war with America; North Vietnam was at war with the South – and utterly defeated it. So the peace process failed in Vietnam, like elsewhere. Peace process is a leftist fallacy, a primitive rationalist approach to immensely complex problems which in fact can be exhausted, but never solved.

Exhausting the Palestinian problem is easy, and Israel did it with success: behead the national organizations, expel their leaders, everyone of the slightest stance in Palestinian society. No great numbers are involved: ousting a few thousand top members of Fatah, Hamas, and other popular organizations would do. When Israel kept systematically expelling PLO associates in 1960-80s, everything was quiet on our Western Front. Even though the PLO tried ruling Palestine through its Department of Popular Organizations which oversaw everything down to students unions, it was nothing compared to the electrifying fact of Arafat’s presence in the West Bank. Beilin-Peres clique brought Arafat from Tunisia to the West Bank, literally let the jinn of terrorism out of the bottle. They meant good, they meant Arafat to be their peace puppet. So they were wrong. As usual, societies pay in blood for leftists’ crumbling projects.

The majority of the Netherlands’ population was good to Jews during Holocaust. But the problem is, the Dutch were also good toward their minority who collaborated with Germans. The minority hunted us, and so 75% of Jews were murdered. The majority of Israelis are decent Jews who wish their country well. But unless they stand up to the vicious leftist minority, too few Jews would survive in Israel.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS: arabs; falseeschatology; israel; palestinians; zipcomsanidiot
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1 posted on 04/22/2008 6:54:26 AM PDT by forkinsocket
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To: forkinsocket

I see all Jewish conflicts relating back to their refusal to accept Christ as their Messiah. Period.


2 posted on 04/22/2008 7:01:50 AM PDT by zip.com
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To: zip.com
Same with the muzzies?
(and anyone else who has not accepted Christ as their Messiah?)

just curious
3 posted on 04/22/2008 7:03:43 AM PDT by The Louiswu (Just say NO... to Hillary and O'Bama)
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To: zip.com

I find that comment very weird at best and callous at worst. Do you think Hitler’s war on the Jews was cause by the Jews not accepting Jesus?


4 posted on 04/22/2008 7:05:50 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (If you share Wright's pews, you share his views.)
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To: zip.com
I see all Jewish conflicts relating back to their refusal to accept Christ as their Messiah. Period.

How astonishingly bigoted of you. Give my regards to Rev. Wright.

5 posted on 04/22/2008 7:06:11 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: zip.com

With respect, Israel’s problems are down to the insanity of the Arab world. It is not the Jews’ fault they are being shot at.

We in the Christian world have accepted Christ, but we have the same problem with Muslims.


6 posted on 04/22/2008 7:08:24 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: zip.com

Intellectually laziest post of the day.


7 posted on 04/22/2008 7:08:43 AM PDT by SolidWood
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To: pabianice
Me?!

You said it first.

I was just asking!
8 posted on 04/22/2008 7:08:46 AM PDT by The Louiswu (Just say NO... to Hillary and O'Bama)
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To: zip.com

There’s a turnip truck leaving in 15 minutes. Why not get aboard ?


9 posted on 04/22/2008 7:11:45 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: forkinsocket

And some writers (Jews and non-Jews) use such sweeping generalizations as to be easily dismissed.


10 posted on 04/22/2008 7:17:25 AM PDT by Natchez Hawk (What's so funny about the first, second, and fourth Amendments?)
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Ok, I should elaborate on my first post as I see I’ve created quite a stir here.

The Jews are God’s chosen people. God gave them their Messiah in the Lord Jesus Christ. They refused to believe it. It is written in the Book of Revelation — a book that was written thousands of years ago by the apostle John, that the Jews will face and are facing MANY hardships because of their refusal of Christ as Messiah. And it even goes on to say — the holocaust is nothing compared to what will happen to them in Armageddon.

Those are NOT my words — they are from God. Anyone who doesn’t like it can take that issue up with God.


11 posted on 04/22/2008 7:26:09 AM PDT by zip.com
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To: zip.com

Brilliant, Islamists are mad at Jews for not accepting Jesus. That makes sense.


12 posted on 04/22/2008 7:27:02 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: zip.com

I see all of mankind’s problems relating back to their refusal to worship God.


13 posted on 04/22/2008 7:28:09 AM PDT by GOPPachyderm
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To: zip.com

Sorry but that clarification is not helpful. It basically says that Jews are getting what they deserve and are cursed by G-d which makes it more acceptable for others to assault and persecute them. I would tell you where to put your philosophy but will refrain since I hope kids read this board.


14 posted on 04/22/2008 7:29:10 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: zip.com
While that has cost a few Jewish lives over the centuries, from the perspective of today's middle east, I see all Jewish conflicts relating back to their refusal to accept Christ as their Messiah Mohammed as their Prophet. Period..

That would solve the conflict and everyone could get on with the task of killing the Sunday people.

15 posted on 04/22/2008 7:29:28 AM PDT by SJackson (before we work on problems, have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation, Michelle O.)
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To: freedomrings69

The Jews are refusing their Messiah, as sent by God. Their troubles begin there and end there. Period. Everything you are seeing now is a consequence of that refusal. All they have to do is ACCEPT Christ as their Messiah — very simple - but not so easy, as we’ve seen throughout history what has happened to them.

You don’t like it — then find another scapegoat to blame — just like you’ve been doing so far.


16 posted on 04/22/2008 7:33:40 AM PDT by zip.com
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To: zip.com
And it even goes on to say — the holocaust is nothing compared to what will happen to them in Armageddon.

Those are NOT my words — they are from God.

Total bullcrock. You claim that this is written in Revelations? Show where in the Bible it is written that what will happen is worse than the Holocaust! Well just show me where the Holocaust is mentioned in the Bible at all! Good luck with that. You are putting your OWN words into God's mouth.

17 posted on 04/22/2008 7:38:28 AM PDT by SolidWood
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To: The Louiswu

Try Buddists and about 50 others.


18 posted on 04/22/2008 7:38:46 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: agere_contra

“Israel’s problems are down to the insanity of the Arab world. It is not the Jews’ fault they are being shot at.”

Do you think Israel’s problems with terrorism might have something to do with Israel’s confiscation of land and diverting of water resources for their settlements in the occupied territories?


19 posted on 04/22/2008 7:38:46 AM PDT by tabsternager
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To: zip.com
the Jews will face and are facing MANY hardships because of their refusal of Christ as Messiah. And it even goes on to say — the holocaust is nothing compared to what will happen to them in Armageddon.

You're suggesting that Christianity was at the core of the Holocaust? Bizarre, but factually incorrect, a Jew who accepted Christ as Messiah, the pagan Nazis killed him too. Even a non-Jew, unfortunate enough to have a Jewish parent or spouse.

20 posted on 04/22/2008 7:41:32 AM PDT by SJackson (before we work on problems, have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation, Michelle O.)
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