Posted on 04/19/2008 12:30:24 PM PDT by BGHater
Twice-divorced former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani took Communion at a Mass celebrated by Pope Benedict on Saturday, breaching rules that bar those who remarry outside the Church from doing so.
As he left New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral with his third wife, Judith, the failed presidential candidate confirmed to Reuters that he took Communion from a priest.
Asked if he was uncomfortable with having broken the Church ban on the divorced and remarried taking Communion, Giuliani said, "No."
The Church does not recognize divorce and teaches that divorced Catholics are still married to their earlier partner unless the Church grants them an annulment, or ruling that the initial marriage was invalid.
Giuliani unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for the White House this year. As New York mayor, he rose to prominence after the September 11 attacks, when he was hailed for his leadership during the crisis.
Despite his Catholic faith, Giuliani has espoused socially liberal political positions such as backing a woman's right to choose an abortion and supporting gay rights.
Last year Pope Benedict reaffirmed that Catholics who divorce and remarry cannot receive Communion unless they abstain from sexual relations with their new partner.
But U.S. clergy tend to leave it up to individual parishioners who are divorced to refrain from taking Communion instead of excluding them from the sacred rite.
Catholics believe that during Mass, the Communion host and wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ.
At Saturday's Mass, the pope consecrated bread and wine that was distributed to the congregation by other priests. Giuliani did not take Communion from the pope himself.
During the presidential campaign, Giuliani said he had some "very, very strong views on religion" that come from him having wanted to be a priest when he was younger and studying theology for four years in college.
Among other politicians who attended the Mass was current New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is Jewish.
Mine too! I get a lot of comments on it, in the beginning I was surprised that so many people recognized it. I can picture women all over yelling “Yeah, you go girl! Floor it again!” lol....
The Pope(s) made up those rules. I was pointing out the disconnect between what Jesus said and the Catechism.
I'm sure you know, but it bears repeating---Giuliani did more than "support" abortion---he advanced it materially, even though, as Mayor, he had no legilstive mnandate to do so. Giuliani was so ardent in his abortion support, he was honored by NARAL. Rudy also contributed to PPhood.
As for marriage---Mayor Rudy squired his mistress to official events while his wife was living in Gracie Mansion. He publicly humiliated his wife by announcing he was divorcing her at a press conference without telling her first.
He tried to dump his wife and children into the streets by announcing he was moving his mistress in---Hanover had to get a judge to declare the mansion their marital home to keep the mistress out.
Last but certainly not least---- as a married man, Mayor Rudy subsidized his mistress's upkeep with tax funds, hiding her expenses in obscure city agencies.
My apologies, I misunderstood your purpose.
If a person lives in sin, they should NOT offend God by taking His Body in Holy Communion. Assuming Rudy did that, he sinned mortally.
Thanks NYer.
This might surprise you but THAT’S NOT YOUR JOB!!! That judgment is the Holy Spirits yet many church members, pastors and priests think it is their duty. The “intent of the heart” is God and God only knowledge. Sorry.
...But also as I have seen on EWTN tonight, as brought up by Raymond Aroyia was said that a number of non-Catholics, including those whose churches go back to the reformation watch EWTN and in a special to the visit of the Pope to America. Goes to show that there is a stronger bond of Christians of different churches who have a great deal of respect and admiration for this Pope because he often as one said could simply speak in southern English and be like Billy Graham in his many crusades speaking about the need to have friendship with the Lord.
No question----we shall not judge---no man among us can read what is in a person's heart and soul.
However, in Giuliani's case, he chose to put himself forward as a public person, he acted publicly as Mayor, and ran as a presidential candidate.
His actions were very public---he made his intentions very clear. Giuliani did not hesitate to flaunt his abortion worship. While married, he squired his mistress to official mayoral events. Giuliani had city agencies subsidize her upkeep without the knowledge and consent of taxpayers (government fraud).
Giuliani made no secret of his philandering, and announced at a presser that he was divorcing his wife, and mother of his two small children, without even telling them beforehand.
So then--while we will not judge his interior life, his public life speaks quite clearly. Guiliani revealed himself for all to see....and had no reservations about doing so.
Giuliani recently asked voters to consider him for president, he vigorously campaigned, spending $60 million, and got one delegate. Voters response to Giuliani was a resounding "NO."
You are right. I am hoping that none of my posts here give anyone the idea that I am anti-Catholic because I certainly am not. In fact I have the greatest respect for this Pope and the last one also. Christ is and should be the catalyst that brings us all together.
Height of what!!!!!!! How can the Church in good faith and name, expect it followers and the devoted to follow church teaching when it grants these phony CINO Politicans Holy Communion. Why, they advocate most vocally the one thing that is a grave sin: abortion. Also another gripe - how are woman supposed to discuss their problems with the clergy: Priest, when they are mostly: male, never been married, probably some in the closet - how on earth do they know what a woman feels?/Just Asking - seoul62........
Sums it up quite succinctly.
We should also keep in mind that politicans who control the levers of power are held to a higher moral standard than ordinary workaday citizens.
Politicians are also held to a higher legal standard---since they hold the power of the purse. Politicans actions are sometimes prosecuted as crimes----while identical actions by citizens are not.
CASE IN POINT: US Senator Harrison Willians was prosecuted and went to jail for taking a gift of stock in a titanium mine. However, an ordinary citizen can take a gift of stock without committing a crime.
=========================================
People weren't buying Giuliani's gameplan---his public life was a map of his interior life. Giuliani worships at The Church of Whatever Works For Me.
No. It’s not your job to deny anyone communion. And that goes for pastors and priests also. They have no way of knowing the intent of ones heart or their personal relationship with the Lord. So, what gives them or you the right to deny anyone. Judge them in your mind if you want, we all do that but don’t try to do the Holy Spirits job.
“I repeat, no church should deny anyone the right to communion. In those days all the church members knew each other and their personal life. Now days, the pastor or priest knows very little about his flock.”
So much the worse for congregations who have hirelings rather than shepherds of the flock.
John 10:11-16
“11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. “
Whether such gatherings of strangers offer “communion to all” or limit it in some way hardly matters, since they have shown by their fruit that their communion is sterile.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
By the scripture you quote here, that alone is proof that man is not the judge. Jesus tells us that He is the one who will say “I don’t know you” and He only. Not the pastor or priest.
‘By the scripture you quote here, that alone is proof that man is not the judge. Jesus tells us that He is the one who will say “I don’t know you” and He only. Not the pastor or priest.’
It’s quite true that the real “Supreme Court” has one member, Jesus, assigned that role by the Father. Your insistence that there are no intermediate courts of judgement, administered by ‘mere men’ is absurd, however, given such teachings as:
the rest of Matt 7, after verse 1, which gives disciples instructions on HOW TO JUDGE. Note that “judge” in verse 1 is not as good a translation as “condemn”. This is consistent with the other teachings, which leave the “final judgement” to the One who truly knows all. We are limited in our judgement capacities, which is why we need to keep the parable of the wheat and tares in mind (Matt 13:24-30, 36-43) - - - and constrain the immediate effects of our “lower court” judgements. However, excommunication is surely one of the possible constraints that may be applied to those who have been judged by members of The Body”, as for example, 1 Cor 5:1-13
1 Cor 6:1-12 where we are enjoined to develop our capacity to “judge one another”, and refrain from delegating this task to secular authorities. It is to the shame of the current generation of the “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb 12:1) that we have been so ready to dismiss this teaching, and arrange our affairs and resolve our disputes through the secular legal system. There are some of our brethren who have recognized this sad state and done something about it, by providing tools for members of the Body to take up their responsibilities in this area. I suggest you seek these out and apply them to your own area of service.
These intermediate courts staffed by “mere humans” are a provision of grace, not law as an absolute independent of the Law Giver. Have mercy on your fellow believers (and those who are still outside the fold), and become part of the “great cloud” of witnesses who are testifying to all about the danger of living in houses on fire. Many will stay in their burning abodes until the end, but perhaps a few will be persuaded to escape, and become part of the flock of the Good Shepherd.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.