Posted on 04/16/2008 12:50:48 PM PDT by keats5
Hearing the FLDS mothers complain about having their families ripped from them is bitterly ironic to Richard Holm.
"The families there have been stolen and kidnapped from their fathers," he told the Deseret News on Tuesday.
Holm was kicked out of the church in 2003 by its leader, Warren Jeffs, and his two wives and children were told to leave him. They were placed with his brother.
"They (FLDS leaders) are guilty of what they're accusing the authorities of doing," Holm said.
Under Jeffs, dozens of men were told to "repent from a distance" for various sins. Some left the FLDS Church and have been speaking out against the polygamous sect, while others continue to be seeking penance and hope to be allowed back in.
Hundreds of teenagers also have been kicked out or run away from the polygamous sect. Known as the "Lost Boys," some have wound up living on the streets or crashing in crowded apartments. Some have turned to drugs or crime.
Those who work with the "Lost Boys" say the children are viewing what happened in Texas as another raid.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Not to mention all the welfare fraud, the pervert and wife number whatever can then collect.
And so Islam—there’s not enough women for every man to have several, so the young stags have to be driven off.
WOW!
Great quote!
Even if they are, I'd rather it be done by cult leaders exercising influence over their followers, even if it IS brainwashing, than by my own government under force of law.
Knowing that my government isn't behaving any worse than a bunch of cult leaders is hardly pleasing.
I bite
As the LDS church considers itself Christian
And accepts the authority of the Bible
They are obligated to act “Under Authority”
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's
Render unto God that which is God's
Jesus’ own words, by their tradition
They Must operate under the Law of Caesar (governance)
They Must not Give Offense, or Take Offense
as that damages their witness to others
They are in severe error of their own Guiding Authority (bible)
Goverance (Caesar) is another issue entirely.
I expect nothing but error from it...
So the only way to go after these sleazies is to enforce laws against underage what? co-habitation? Statutory rape? Sounds like the only way is the statutory rape charges. And if the women do not want to press charges then what?
Then Muslims can legally live with as many wives as they want. The only negative is they cannot claim Social Security and other govt bennies for all wives/kids like they can in the UK.
I agree! And those of us who point this out are flogged with the flag.
I was kiddin with ya. ;-)
Exactly. And I find it pretty aggravating that the media keeps referring to the FLDS as a “polygamist” group. That’s not the problem. Forcing adolescent girls into marriage and raping them would hardly be okay if it was done monogamously.
I do not know the normal operations of this cult and can not comment with any authority on their financial matters. I have known other polygamists who do not want any money from the state, so my personal experience is to not paint with such a wide brush.
Now as for Welfare in general - I would say that taking by means of taxes to give alms to the poor is unconstitutional on it’s face.
I do not have problems with the statutory rape charge for any minor with varying degrees of punishment based upon the age of the minor and possible consent.
For example, if the victim (male or female) is less than 12 / 13 / 14 (pick your age), then no consent can be given and it is automatically forcible rape which should carry a heavier penalty.
If the victim is between the age above and 18 then the charge should be of a lesser rape unless otherwise (via threat, force, drugs, etc) it qualifies for forcible rape. If consent can be shown, then punishment should be reduced to a lessor sentence. Thus operating under the premise that even though a 16 or 17 year old my willing have sex, they are not mature enough to give such consent.
“Knowing that my government isn’t behaving any worse than a bunch of cult leaders is hardly pleasing. “
Most of us have found out that the media is showing the general public the ‘scary movie’, where stepford wives speak in soft monotones, asking for return of their children.
when asked for their child’s name, they have no response.
The ‘mom’s aren’t the bad guys in this. The cooperate with the leader of the Texas FLDS underage polygamy practicing (and that is documentable) group, or else they are traded like baseball cards at a convention.
Traded between William Jessop and his ‘tight’ inner circle.
Or traded off to another branch of the FLDS.
Each woman is a housekeeper, and babysitter.
Each female child is a sex toy, and a piggy bank (welfare check).
Each male child is dumped at the earliest opportunity.
(google: LOST BOYS)
“Forcing adolescent girls into marriage and raping them would hardly be okay if it was done monogamously.”
And yet it is amazing how many people (not just here on FR) keep missing that essential point.
Dangerous cults like this should not be allowed to practice their evil in this country. period.
Like the Jim Jones outfit they should have the decency to go to another more welcoming place to hide their filth. Saudi Arabia perhaps.
But no kids should be allowed to go with them.
The other issue is the question I was asking about - clearly the governmental action taken so far is extra constitutional.
If your rant is not in jest then you have no respect for the religion clause in the 1st amendment.
Crimes individuals commit should be prosecuted, but you're not suggesting crime ridden 'hoods be fenced off like the Warsaw getto are you?
The more I 'hear' these women speak the more I wonder if (due to the imbreeding) they are just mentally slow or if there is wide spread use of mood altering drugs. The don't sound 'normal.' Their speech patterns are so 'tiny.' Little words, said with little girly voices.
I still, as a mom myself, cannot garner any sympathy for these women. Before the crying jag photo shoot and before they started to 'speak' I felt some compassion...now I just think what they have allowed to be done to their kids.
“Sounds like the only way is the statutory rape charges. And if the women do not want to press charges then what?”
Statutory rape is considered an offense against the state: the victim need not press charges to prosecute the offender.
“The method he would use with infants was a form of water torture,” Jessop said of her former husband. “He would spank the baby until it was screaming out of control, and then he would hold the baby faceup under a tap of running water so it couldn’t breathe. He would do this repeatedly. Sometimes, it would go on for an hour, until the baby was so exhausted it couldn’t cry anymore. This method he called ‘breaking them.’” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24009286/
Flora Jessop, another woman who left cult several years ago describes the same sort of thing:
One of the things that they have declared is that God finds crying babies offensive, so they teach their babies not to cry between 6 and 15 months of age. They do this one of two ways: They repeatedly slap the faces of their crying babies or they hold their faces under running water. When you take away the voice of a baby, of a child, the only means of communicating that it is hungry, sick, hurting, any of those things, you own that child." http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?s=5201924
In any of the pictures or video footage of the children removed from the compund, have you seen any children who looked like they were crying? I haven't, not even in the cell phone photos that the women sent out of the supposedly horrible shelter conditions in which their children were suffering. They wanted to make it look as bad as possible, but they apparently couldn't find any crying children to snap a photo of. Scary.
“I mean polygamy is illegal in this country still right?
“
Depends on what the meaning of is is.
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