Posted on 04/15/2008 10:27:22 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
ELDORADO — Mothers separated from their children as part of a wide-ranging abuse investigation within a polygamist retreat accuse state officials of misleading them before taking their offspring into custody.
Authorities raided the sect's ranch more than a week ago in response to allegations that underage girls were forced to marry older men. Women and children from the secretive community were taken to a West Texas fort-turned-museum and a rodeo pavilion, but on Monday officials began separating women and some of their offspring without warning, members of the sect said.
While some women and children were taken from the shelters to the nearby San Angelo Coliseum, other women were allowed to return to the ranch — but only those who were childless or had children under the age of 5.
About three dozen of the women who returned to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ranch spoke out Monday, after 11 days in temporary shelters. They said in interviews that police surrounded them Monday and gave them a choice between returning home, or relocating to a women's shelter.
"It just feels like someone is trying to hurt us," said Paula, 38, who like other members of the sect declined to give her full name. "I do not understand how they can do this when they don't have a for sure knowledge that anyone has abused these children."
Marissa Gonzales, a spokeswoman for the Department of Family and Protective Services, said the move was a typical procedure taken by the agency.
"It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made," Gonzales said.
Brenda, a 37-year-old mother of two teenage boys, said the women were threatened with arrest if they resisted the court order. Previously, the women had been told they would stay with the children at least until Thursday, when a custody hearing is scheduled, she said.
A call to CPS for comment late Monday on the women's claims was not immediately returned.
CPS's closing of the shelters came a day after three mothers from the ranch petitioned Gov. Rick Perry to inspect the shelters to see firsthand how families were being treated. The women said the living conditions were cramped and that some of the children had become sick.
About 20 children were recovering from a mild case of chicken pox, said Dr. Sandra Guerra-Cantu with the state Health Department.
Perry spokesman Robert Black said the governor did not believe the children were being housed in poor conditions at the West Texas fort.
"Let's be honest here, this is not the Ritz," Black said. But he called the accommodations "clean and neat."
CPS said officials have been planning the move for a week but that the coliseum was unavailable earlier. About two dozen teenage boys were moved to a facility outside San Angelo with the judge's permission, CPS said. The location was not released.
The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.
"Quite frankly, I'm not sure what we're going to do," state District Judge Barbara Walther said after a conference that included three to four dozen attorneys either representing or hoping to represent youngsters.
Brenda and others were critical of CPS, saying the agency misled them as to what was to happen Monday, weren't told why the children were removed from the compound and given inaccurate messages about opportunities to meet attorneys.
"We got to where we said, 'We cannot believe a word you say. We cannot trust you,'" she said.
Officials said the investigation began with a call from a young girl who has yet to be located by CPS. The women in the sect said they suspect she may be a bitter ex-member of the church.
The FLDS practice polygamy in arranged marriages, sometimes between underage girls and older men. The group has thousands of followers in two side-by-side towns in Arizona and Utah.
The church has repeatedly fought because of its lifestyle before. Men, women and children have been swept up in raids that took place in 1935, 1944 and 1953.
"It's been all through history, " said Brenda, the mother of two. "We were just here trying to live a peaceful, happy, sweet life. We don't understand why we can't do this freely."
No, the little girls were led into a multi-story white Temple to a bed, and raped by fat 50+ year old men. The boys were thrown out (away from their mothers) because they were "competition" with the piggish 50+ year old perverts.
The analogies to Waco were old last week. They had no bearing, little similarity, and were vacuous regarding intellectual honesty.
Then they came for the Mormon polygamists, and I didn’t say anything because I wasn’t a Mormon polygamist.
Then they came for the... child rapists, and I didn't say anything because I wasn't a child rapist.
Then they came for the perverts, but I didn't say anything because I wasn't a pervert.
Then they came for the wife beaters, but I didn't.......wait.....this isn't coming out like I wanted?
Once again,
I don’t like these people BUT,
STATE YOUR EVIDENCE FOR YOUR COMMENTS!!!
No need to shout.
Before I answer you, I have a question. Are you LDS? I will disclose that I am not. I am a bible believing Christian of no denomination.
I ask that because it is relevant to the posts and debate that has been raging on Free Republic for the last 2 weeks.
Now, what "evidence" would you like regarding what statement?
I started in that direction (Colorado City) this afternoon. A major wind storm forced me into the Buckskin Bar in Fredonia and I decided to stay there until the wind stopped.
Then I changed my mind as one can’t walk into the grocery store over there in Colorado City with likker on your breath.
This cult does everything the government is being criticized for and to a far worse degree and all we hear are cries of how bad the government is and how it should leave them alone. All we hear is *Send them back. Reunite them with their families.*
Why?
It is very interesting, isn't it? I've had posters flame me for posting against this child rape because "it's a conservative forum, we will lose our 'RIGHTS'". So this "conservatism" is the face of Free Republic to be shown to the world? I don't ping JR because of his health issues, but I wonder what he thinks of this.
We see FReepers condoning this atrocity because they don't like the way the children were rescued and demanding the children be sent back into that hell to be with "mothers" who facilitated the rape.
We are seeing mainstream LDS posters on here trying their best to defend polygamy as a "seperate" thing from what the FLDS practices...and defending the fruit of polygamy in the process.
It truly, truly makes me want to puke!
The testimony of those who have escaped. Unless you’re going to brand them liars.
The pregnant bellies of underage girls.
The welfare fraud.
The fact that the cult practices and condones those things and the government condemns the rape of children.
What’s you solution?
Where is your evidence that it isn’t happening?
You refer back to Waco as if ‘See, it’s happening again’....
Are you saying that everything we’ve heard via the media is all fabrication? That the interviews with the women who’ve ‘excaped’ is not true? That Jeff’s trial transcripts are made up? That the welfare logs are wrong?
Then I changed my mind as one can’t walk into the grocery store over there in Colorado City with likker on your breath.
Yeah, THAT would be a sin, wouldn't it? < /irony >
Make that escaped....
Or pick a vowel Alex.
If you started reading this thread from the beginning, you would know that I am not mormon, nor do I like their beliefs very much. I am a Christian, of the first century type; that is I believe that Man-made doctrine should not be dogma.
Now for last question, look back at your post that I was referring to and you should get it.
I've raised that issue many times. Be prepared to be called a pervert who enjoys this kind of stuff.
I suspect you know why it is called Fredonia? That is where all the wives of the Southern Utah polygamists lived. The upstanding Bishops and others lived in their lovely homes in Kanab with wife #1. The rest of their wives lived over in Arizona in their little shacks. Lots of interesting stories around here with some of the old timers. (Those who dare to talk)
“The testimony of those who have escaped...”
Please tell me where I can find it.
I suppose a 50+ year history of this group and it’s doings isn’t enough for some people.
They just demand more evidence. The problem is, if 50 and more years doesn’t cut it, nothing new that you or I can bring into it will either. Anything brought out will just be condemned as lies, media hype, wishful thinking, whatever.
It gets back to the fact that nothing the government does will ever be good enough to satisfy some people and nothing the cult does can be bad enough to not send the kids back.
I’m a reasonable man, Ma’am,
I just want you to stop talking in generalities, and tell me where I can find the information you’re using for your comments.
I agree. The govt and the media have succeeded in training people to presume guilt and require proof of innocence. They did the same thing w/ the Branch Davidians, IIRC. It's amazing how the sheeple all line up and believe what they are told to believe, absent any evidence.
Your children are not your own. The state uses you to pay for their upbringing and if you do not raise them as the state wants you to, they're gone.
Just wait till the state makes it 'child abuse' to teach your children that homosexuality is wrong. It will be too late then. No one will be left to stand with you.
The book *Escape* by Carolyn Jessop.
Or one of the many links to her interviews. Some of the links may be dupes.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=175#175
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=207#207
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=218#218
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=220#220
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=252#252
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=253#253
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=286#286
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=288#288
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=300#300
Informant: Men had sex with underage girls in FLDS temple
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999244/posts?page=29#29
Welll...I imagine that well is drying up as we speak.
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