Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Local and state officials entered the temple of a secretive polygamist sect late Saturday, said lawmen blockading the road to the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The action comes hours after local prosecutors said officials were preparing for the worst because a group of FLDS members were resisting efforts to search the structure.
The Texas Department of Public Safety trooper and Schleicher County sheriff’s deputy confirmed that officials have entered the temple but said they had no word on whether anything occurred in the effort.
The incursion into the temple caps the three-day saga of the state’s Child Protective Services agency removing at least 183 women and children from the YFZ Ranch since Friday afternoon. Eighteen girls have been placed in state custody since a 16-year-old told authorities she was married to a 50-year-old man and had given birth to his child.
Saturday evening, ambulances were brought in, said Allison Palmer, who as first assistant 51st District attorney, would prosecute any felony crimes uncovered as part of the investigation inside the compound.
“In preparing for entry to the temple, law enforcement is preparing for the worst,” Palmer said Saturday evening. They want to have “medical personnel on hand in case this were to go in a way that no one wants.”
Apparently as a result of action Saturday night at the ranch, about 10:15 p.m. Saturday, a Schleicher County school bus unloaded another group of at least a dozen more women and children from the compound.
Although members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, have provided varying degrees of cooperation to the sheriff’s deputies and Texas Rangers searching the compound, all cooperation stopped once authorities tried to search the gleaming white temple that towers over the West Texas scrub, Palmer said.
“There may be those who would oppose (entry) by placing themselves between law enforcement and the place of worship,” Palmer said Saturday afternoon. “If an agreement cannot be reached … law enforcement will have to — as gently and peaceably as possible — make entry into that place.”
Sect members consider the temple, dedicated by then-leader of the sect Warren Jeffs in January 2005 and finished many months later, off-limits to those who are not FLDS members, said Palmer, who prosecutes felony cases in Schleicher County.
Palmer said she didn’t know the size or makeup of the group inside the temple.
The earlier refusal to provide access was even more disconcerting because CPS investigators have yet to identify the 16-year-old girl or her roughly 8-month-old baby among the dozens removed from the compound, Palmer said.
“Anytime someone says, ‘Don’t look here,’” she said, “it makes you concerned that’s exactly where you need to look.”
The girl told authorities in two separate phone calls a day apart that she was married to a 50-year-old man, Dale Barlow, who had fathered her child, Palmer said.
The joint raid included the Texas Rangers, CPS, Schleicher County and Tom Green County sheriff’s deputies and game wardens from the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife.
Although CPS and Department of Public Safety officials have described the compound’s residents as cooperative, Palmer disagreed.
“Things have been a little tense, a little volatile,” she said.
Authorities removed 52 children Friday afternoon and 131 women and children overnight Friday. About 40 of the children are boys, said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.
No further children have been taken into state custody since Friday, when 18 girls were judged to have been abused or be at imminent risk for abuse. CPS has found foster homes for the girls, Meisner said, and will place them after concluding its investigation.
Meisner declined to comment on the fate of the 119 other children and said authorities were still searching the ranch for others Saturday evening.
“They’re in the process of looking,” she said. “They’re literally about halfway through.”
# 1016
Here's some scriptures that will help, especially given your reference to Jesus visiting America.
John 10: 16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Genesis 49: 22 ¶ Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting chills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
Ezek. 37: 16, 19
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
• • •
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Ya know, I am sure most here would readily agree that this discussion has diverged WAAAAAAAAY off the original topic, and has been for a long time. Don’t ya think it maybe should be moved to the religion forum? Not sure if you have that ability, but am just wondering.
Your twisting of their meaning is a far cry from what they said. Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. That is LDS doctrine, plain and simple.
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Want to “explain” the meaning of this one ???
“Mormons differ from other Christians in our literal belief that we are begotten of God spiritually and that Christ was begotten of him physically. Paul says in Acts that we are God’s offspring (17:28-29). We believe that our spiritual conception was sexual just as we believe that Christ’s mortal conception was. Elucidating the latter, James E. Talmage says, “That child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law, but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof” (1986, 81).” (Robert A. Rees, Bishop of the Los Angeles First Ward in a sacrament meeting talk on April 29th, 1990, entitled “Bearing Our Crosses Gracefully: Sex and the Single Mormon.”)
I’ve never heard Mormons say there is only the Father and the Son. The LDS believe is clear in that we believe in 3 members of the Godhead. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost. You guys call it the trinity 3 in one. We call it the Godhead, 3 distinct members of the Godhead.
BTW, Trinity is not found in the bible. Godhead is, several times.
My response: Don't confuse the Old Testament's historical description of polygamy with God's approval. Deuteronomy 17:16 specifically warns kings against taking too many wives or horses. Although the Old Testaments is full of examples of polygamy, it consistently shows how the practice results in disaster.
The Lord specifically told Abraham that his blessing would go to Isaac, his wife's child, rather than to Ishmael, the son of Abraham's concubine. Because of polygamy, Jacob's children became so jealous of Joseph, the son of the favored wife, that they sold him into slavery. The biggest blot on David's record was his weakness for multiple women, leading him to kill another man to take Bathsheba into his harem. David's children through multiple wives were at each other's throats, literally. David's one son raped his half sister, Tamar, and as a result, her brother Absalom killed the rapist. David banished Absalom for a time, which may well have led to Absalom’s revolt against his father, leading to Absalom’s death. David's son Solomon, Bathsheba's son, became king after David's death, but his polygamy, (1000 wives and concubines) is cited for his turning to idolatry, which eventually tore the kingdom in two.
Who cares. He’s a bishop, there are literarily tens of thousands of them. They do not set doctrine for the church. Care to show me a doctrinal statement when we don’t believe Christ is the only begotten son of God in the flesh?
And the bible also says that there will be real prophets, living prophets.
Whom do you all consider to be real prophets?
We all know there are false ones, but who do you think are the real ones?
I am quite aware of the Bible verses which are used to respond to that question, however none of those say he travelled to America. Only the first one leads us to wonder what he may have meant, and it falls far short of being enough to validate the concept of Christ being in the Americas as being valid. The only writings which come close to saying that, specifically, or even close to it, is the writings of the B.O.M.
On the other hand, the Bible does specifically say, in Acts 1:19 “After Jesus said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.” Then the following 3 verses say this...
“They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city. (Acts 1:10-12)
So the Bible directly contradicts the interpretation you place upon John 10:16.
Mary is the Mother of God, in the flesh. We don’t know how it happened other that that the Holy Ghost overshadowed her and she conceived. She is still the Mother of God after the manner of the flesh.
“Whom do you all consider to be real prophets?”
Those whose words do not contradict the teachings of the Bible. I showed you, in my last post, how Smith’s interpretation of John is contradicted, clearly, by Acts 1:9 - 12.
Further, false prophets will often speak truths. Satan himself is very adept at speaking truths... just enough of them to get you to believe the lie he slips in. False prophets “miracles” will also not always fail, which lends them more credibility in the minds of the gullible.
Deu 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
Deu 13:2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,”
Deu 13:3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
Deu 13:5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
And for the record, it's wasn't just the tribe of Joseph that he visited, and it wasn't just the Americas either. He visited all the house or Israel. We just don't know where that was... yet. Someday we will know all things.
3 Nephi 16:
1 And verily, verily, I say unto you that I have other sheep, which are not of this land, neither of the land of Jerusalem, neither in any parts of that land round about whither I have been to minister.
2 For they of whom I speak are they who have not as yet heard my voice; neither have I at any time manifested myself unto them.
3 But I have received a commandment of the Father that I shall go unto them, and that they shall hear my voice, and shall be numbered among my sheep, that there may be one fold and one shepherd; therefore I go to show myself unto them.
4 And I command you that ye shall write these sayings after I am gone, that if it so be that my people at Jerusalem, they who have seen me and been with me in my ministry, do not ask the Father in my name, that they may receive a knowledge of you by the Holy Ghost, and also of the other tribes whom they know not of, that these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shall be manifested unto the Gentile's, that through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed, who shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their unbelief, may be brought in, or may be brought to a acknowledge of me, their Redeemer.
5 And then will I gather them in from the four quarters of the earth; and then will I fulfil the covenant which the Father hath made unto all the people of the house of Israel.
6 And blessed are the gentiles, because of their belief in me, in and of the Holy Ghost, which witnesses unto them of me and of the Father.
7 Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the gentiles, that the fullness of these things shall be made known unto them.
LOL!
Is there or is there not real prophets in addition to false ones? Who are the real ones?
You said, “Jesus is a descendant of plural marriage as most here on FR in the ancient of day!”
My response: According to Matthew 1: 5 & Joshua 2:1, Jesus was also a descendant of a prostitute (Rahab), but that doesn’t mean the Lord condones prostitution. It just means he can work through fallen man.
You have a pleasant evening.
“The angels spoke to them of Christ’s return in glory”
Return means to come back to the place you left. Not to go somewhere else. Christ’s return is from Heaven, where he, ascended to as written in Acts.
As for the rest of your post, you are once again using circular logic, since if it were a true scripture, it would say it is true, and if it were a false scripture, it would still say it is true. The only yardstick by which the truth can be known is if it does not contradict the Bible, which it does, and which I have already proven.
The Lord didn’t condone prostitution, but the Lord gave David his wives, through his prophet Nathan.
2 Samuel 12:8
And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom,
” Who are the real ones?”
Already asked and answered
Find this verse and be enlightened, 7:
“Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is One.”
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