Posted on 03/29/2008 12:59:40 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Who is Odinga? Odinga is Obama's cousin. Odinga and Obama are from the same Kenyan Luo tribe. Odinga supporters are the people that are burning Christians alive, trapped inside churches ... Most of Odinga's fanatical followers are radical islamists who have pushed for Islamic Sharia Law...
... In 2006, Obama took a trip to Kenya and voiced his support for his fellow tribesman and political ally, Odinga.
Obama also directly attacked the sitting Kenyan leadership (Kibaki) calling them 'corrupt'...
... Odinga is the cat that ran on the socialist democrat ticket in Kenya and lost to sitting president Kibaki.
... Odinga has now made a deal for support with Muslim fundamentalists. A photograph copy of a Memorandum of Understanding, dated and signed on August 29, 2007, between Raila Odinga and Sheikh Abdullah Abi, chiarman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya...
http://eakenya.org/newsevents/article.htm?id=8
Here is a summary on the agreement which was signed:
* It pledges the support of Kenyan Moslems for Raila's election. In return, as President of Kenya, Raila, agrees to 14 actions, listed a) through n) on page 2.
* Within 6 months rewrite the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Sharia as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions...
(Excerpt) Read more at sodahead.com ...
Nice Fred.
You complain that you don’t think others should tell you what to think / say but have no issues telling others.
Go sell your garbage to someone else.
I know how to spell hypocrite and how to use it in a sentence.
"Like many other leaders of new African nations, President Jomo Kenyatta has not found it easy to steer a middle course between East and West. His job has not been made easier by the activities of his own Vice President, Oginga Odinga, who admits that "Communism is like food to me" and has been trav eling through the countryside heaping Red-tinged scorn on Kenyatta's ties with the West."
KingJaja is a quisling.
Isn’t ODINGA a RELATIVE of Obama’s?
There are no Reds in present day Africa. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.
No one would vote for a communist in a Kenya full of evangelical Christians.
The British Labour Party is full of former communists/socialists. David Milliband’s (the current foreign minister) father was a prominent marxist intellectual. One of the leading contenders in the Italian presidential election is a former communist.
Do think any Kenyan leader is stupid enough to antagonize the US and forgo foreign aid? Kenya will continue to cooperate with the US on radical Islamist terrorism regardless of who is elected.
Your opinions and experiences are valuable to me because they provide a context I wouldn't have otherwise. If I have made any offense, I apologize.
I can understand making appeals to religious, ethnic constituencies. But as I read the Odinga/NAMLEF MOU, it seems to be describing the establishment of a separatist state under Muslim law and control. To my mind, that amounts to a disavowal of the nation of Kenya.
Is there a historic precedent for this in Kenya? What is the opinion of the majority of Kenyans in this matter?
Both Kibaki and Odinga signed MOU’s with Muslims
I haven't found Kibaki's. How is it different from Odinga's? Sounds like the Somali rendition is a major issue. (As I can imagine it would be!)
What is Kibaki trying to achieve with this, and is the practice still going on?
I do not trust you.
If Obama was elected President, is it not possible that
his relatives and fellow tribesmen in Kenya would seek favors and special consideration?
This is Kenya’s second real democratic election. The guy before Kibaki (Arap Moi) ruled as a virtual dictator for more than twenty years. Kibaki defeated Arap Moi because Kenya yearned for change.
Democracy is messy. Muslims constitute 10% of the population of Kenya. You cannot ignore them in a tight race. Secondly, there are some real discriminatory practices against Muslims (like non-issue of national ID cards).
Kibaki did not win the popular vote, so in typical African fashion he attempted to slander his opponent. In the aftermath many people died. (Odinga is no saint).
There are many ‘Odinga MOUs’ in circulation many are false.
No right thinking Kenyan politician would create a seperate state for muslims in Kenya. What part of ‘Kenya is 90% non-muslim (christian majority) do you not understand? The Muslim areas are the coast areas (Mombassa etc), very important areas for tourism.
Now the final and most important point. Obama is very popular within Kenya (understandbly). Kenya is a VERY IMPORTANT ally in the war against terror (Look at a map and see where Kenya lies). Kenya has been of great help to both Britain and Israel (the ‘raid on Entebbe’ Israeli commandoes used Kenyan facilities).
We (conservatives) should not try to piss off the Kenyans. The last thing we want is for it to be politically difficult for a democratically elected Kenyan politician to stick his neck out to aid the US.
Well Obama has not even bought a car for his grandmother, so to suggest that he would grant special favours for Luos would be stretching it a little too far.
If you want to have a real feel for the passions and anguish of the ordinary Kenyan of the recent elections read this: http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/12/31/is-kenya-turning-into-a-police-state/
The situation in Kenya was a deeply emotional experience for most Kenyans. And Kenyans are understandbly angry that people in America have sought to score cheap political points ‘over the bodies of scores of dead kenyans’.
It is like rubbing salt on an open wound. A wound that has only begun to heal. Kenyans have moved on. Right now Kibaki and Odinga have agreed to form a government together (with Kibaki as president and Odinga as prime minister).
I can see that. Do you think the Somali rendition is an injustice?
No right thinking Kenyan politician would create a seperate state for muslims in Kenya. What part of ‘Kenya is 90% non-muslim (christian majority) do you not understand?
It's not that I don't understand the Christian majority. What I don't understand is a presidential candidate advocating the creation of a separatist state.
It is reported that Odinga won the election, but through negotiations including Koffe Annan, Kabiki retained the presidency. How do you explain this?
Obama is very popular within Kenya (understandbly).
Yes. Understood.
Kenya is a VERY IMPORTANT ally in the war against terror (Look at a map and see where Kenya lies). Kenya has been of great help to both Britain and Israel (the ‘raid on Entebbe’ Israeli commandoes used Kenyan facilities).
Understood. That is exactly why an understanding of Odinga and his policies would be important to an American.
We (conservatives) should not try to piss off the Kenyans. The last thing we want is for it to be politically difficult for a democratically elected Kenyan politician to stick his neck out to aid the US.
That statement seems to support my concerns about Odinga. Are you suggesting that Odinga would use a repudiation of Barack Obama by the American electorate as a rationale for further political upheaval in Kenya?
Rendition is not popular ANYWHERE (even in Britain our closest ally). Odinga did not advocate the creation of a separatist state (Remember Odinga also won the majority of the Christian vote). In Sub-Saharan African Muslims have a very healthy respect for Christian majorities (I can assure you).
Odinga won the election, but agreed to a power sharing agreement to stop the bloodshed simple as that. Americans generally have a rose-tinted view about democracy, can’t blame them the’ve always had it easy. Democracy can be very bloody business. (If you doubt it study the Indian experience).
Odinga spent some time last year in the States, so I don’t think he is anti-US. He will definitely not be pro-China. The US (Condi Rice, State Department and Barack Obama) showed leadership in resolving the crisis. (He drives a hummer and is one of the richest men in Kenya).
There are few places as pro-US as Sub-Saharan Africa. President Bush was treated like a Rock Star during his recent trip to Africa. Unfortunately this is the region least understood and most prone to media stereotypes and lazy journalism from the West.
I want to stretch your mind a bit. I understand that Americans are in a thrall and have a deep fear for Islam, but do you understand the impact of Christianity in Sub-Saharan African politics. Why do you (and most Westerners) continue to insist that Christianity has little or no role to play in politics? Why do you continue to underestimate the role of Christianity in African politics.
I have seen all sorts of ‘sophisticated analysis’ about Africa and the religion that all the Harvard PhDs suggest is of any relevance is Islam. How wrong and how silly!
Apparently you can't read. My post said he went to Besuki Primary School.
Obama’s family should have created a special school (where Islam was not taught) for him to attend in Indonesia.
Nope, you definitely can't read. It says in the article that students can sign up for whatever religious studies they want in the Indonesian public school. And Obama was signed up for Muslim studies, in particular the most hardcore Muslim studies.
If you don't know anything about Indonesian schools you shouldn't say anything about them. Right? Dumbass.
And Obama is a supporter of one of those SOBs. Right? That is a problem for a candidate for Pres. of the U.S.
All American presidents support King Abdullah, Musharraf and Hosni Mubarak. All these guys are SOBs. Men are not angels, the world is full of these kinds of people.
I am almost crying myself hoarse here, Jeremiah Wright has given us a goldmine of information to nail Obama to the floor, yet we persist in this silly globe trotting (from Indonesia to Kenya and back again).
Jaja constantly refers to himself as part of our "we" and "us" and tells us what we should do yet he claims to be living in England after thirty years in Africa.
On this thread he has done everything he can to avert us from looking into...
the Obama/Odinga connection,
Obama's active campaigning for Odinga (as a US Senator),
Odinga's Marxist education,
Odinga's vocally communist father (Obama's uncle),
Odinga's leadership role in the massacres that followed his loss in the election (the violence ended only when a power sharing deal was struck),
Odinga's relationship with the Sharia law seeking NAMLEF.
He wants us to 'trust' him. He wants us to believe that Marxism, Communism, Socialism just don't exist in Africa, that all politics are tribal.
He wants us to look the other way.....
Why?
I want balance. If you’re going to talk about Odinga at least talk about Kibaki. I heard no mention about the news media blackout, about police and army brutality, about extra-judicial killing by government forces.
I heard nothing about election rigging and other election related fraud. All I hear is that Odinga operates in a vacuum and Obama is his willing accomplice.
The mark of a great mind is the ability to consider other points of view. That is precisely what I am trying to provoke on this forum.
If that makes me a quisling, so be it.
Seems extreme, but I don't know the conditions that brought it about.
Odinga did not advocate the creation of a separatist state (Remember Odinga also won the majority of the Christian vote).
Those are the two points I can't get my wits around. The Evangelical Alliance of Kenya has the MOU posted to their website. It states:
"That the Candidate, when, Insha Allah, he becomes President of Kenya will:
a. Ensure that the Coast Province shall henceforth be known as JIMBO LA PWANI and shall have full autonomy in Governance in all matter apart from National Defence and International Accreditation. In addition, while freedom of worship will be upheld at the JIMBO LA PWANI, the Council of Islamic leaders shall be permitted to have an oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions and any applications for religious activities and institutions will require their approval. They shall have the right to deny approval to cults and other evil practices.
b. Within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions.
c. With immediate effect dismiss the Commissioner of Police who has allowed himself to be used by heathens and Zionists to oppress the Kenyan Muslim community.
d. Disband the imperialist Anti-Terror Police Unit (ATPU) that was set up for the sole purpose of terrorizing, harassing, intimidating and deporting innocent Kenyan Muslims to Guantanamo Bay.
e. Ensure THAT ALL MUSLIMS residing within the Republic of Kenya, and especially those who reside in the North Eastern Province shall be granted full National Identity Cards, and thereafter, North Eastern Province shall also be granted majimbo status no less favourable and on similar terms with JIMBO LA PWANI, within SIX MONTHS of Raila Amollo Odinga being sworn in as President.
f. No Muslim residing in Kenya whether a citizen, visitor or relative of any of the above shall be subjected to any process involving the laws of a foreign country and in particular any Muslim arrested for or suspected of Terrorism or any other International crime shall only be tried within the boarders of Kenya and shall be granted a competent lawyer of his/her choice at the expense of the Government.
g. Within 1 year facilitate the establishment of a Shariah court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters.
h. Popularize Islam, the only true religion, in the Coast and North Eastern Regions by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.
i. Impose a total ban on open-air gospel crusades by worshippers of the cross in the Coast and North Eastern regions.
j. Outlaw gospel programs (preaching, purported faith healing, etc) on KBC, the National Broadcaster.
k. Impose a total ban on the public consumption of alcoholic beverages in the Coast and North eastern Regions and their towns of Mombasa, Malindi, Lamu, Garissa, Wajir, Mandera, Kwale, Vanga, Lunga Lunga, and all other muslim populated urban centres of Kenya whose population is at least 40% (forty percent) Muslim.
l. Quash the recent legalization of mazi [?], busaa, muratina, kaluvu, and all other haram beverages.
m. Close down Farmer's Choice in Jimbo La Pwani and Jimbo La Kaskazini Mashariki and other factories that process and package swine and other haram products in regions populated by Muslims including the Coast and North Eastern regions.
n. Impose an immediate ban on women's public dressing styles that are considered immoral and offensive to the Muslim faith in the Muslim regions of the Coastal and North Eastern Regions. This ban will apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike, in these regions and will include all visitors whether domestic or foreign tourists."
End of quotation of MOU between NAMLEF and signed by Raila Amollo Odinga.
If this is not the advocacy of, and a platform for the establishment of a separatist Muslim state within the territorial boundaries of Kenya…I don't know what would be.
Regarding the election, why would Kofi Annan support Kabiki over Odinga?
Why do you (and most Westerners) continue to insist that Christianity has little or no role to play in politics? Why do you continue to underestimate the role of Christianity in African politics.
I have never made any such statements.
I have seen all sorts of ‘sophisticated analysis’ about Africa and the religion that all the Harvard PhDs suggest is of any relevance is Islam. How wrong and how silly!
It would come as no surprise to posters on this forum if said "Harvard PhD" was a sociologist creating an apologist thesis for a leftist agenda.
I challenge you.
Name one Sub-Saharan African nation where the politics is not tribal. Name just one.
You cannot talk about Marxism, Communism or Capitalism in societies in which the majority of the population depends on subsistence agriculture and is illiterate / untouched by outside influence.
Mobutu claimed to be ‘capitalist’ while neighbouring Dos Santos claimed to be ‘socialist’. There was no fundamental difference between Mobutu’s rule and Dos Santos rule. The major source of wealth was government. The primary employer was government. The private sector was almost absent. They were both kleptocracies.
The only difference was that Mobutu could con Reagan and Thatcher into providing arms and funds whilst Dos Santos could con Brezhnev and Castro. Siad Barre played the same game with the Americans while neighbouring Haile Mengistu played the same game with the Soviets.
You can write tons of theoretical papers about socialism and capitalism in Africa, but those of us that know Africa understand its all bunk.
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No you don't. You want us to ignore Obama's Kenya activities and his connections. You want us to pretend that he did not actively campaign for a Marxist and that the Marxist is responsible for the killings that forced a power-sharing deal.
Hell, you want us to believe that there are no Marxists in African politics at all.
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