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William F. Buckley’s ‘Conservative Movement’ Still-Born, Dead-On-Arrival, Because it Was Godless...
The American View ^ | 3/3/2008 | John Lofton ("recovering Republican, recovering conservative")

Posted on 03/03/2008 1:57:22 PM PST by Jim Robinson

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To: wideawake
Buckley wasn’t a “conservative Catholic” - "In fact, Buckley was not a conservative Catholic, in the religious, doctrinal sense of the term. He opposed the wisdom of church teaching on social and political issues. He favored decriminalizing drugs and wrote for Playboy. For a time, he defended southern segregationists and supported birth control. In other words, Buckley was not the intellectual godfather of Ray Flynn or Bob Casey, Sr. This is not to suggest that Buckley was a liberal Catholic in the religious sense. Besides his lifelong opposition to socialism and communism, he opposed legalized abortion and opposed “Playboyism.” So what was Buckley? He was an idiosyncratic Catholic. On political issues, he took conservative stands, as well as a few liberal ones. As an example of the latter, he wrote a book arguing that the state, not the free market, was better able to nurture citizenship and a sense of civic obligation. On religious issues, he was a mixture of both. His views are complicated. He called himself a Catholic and a libertarian. Go figure."
41 posted on 03/03/2008 2:29:09 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Petronski
Rapture is not a Calvinist thing, look at the Anabaptists.
42 posted on 03/03/2008 2:29:11 PM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: BibChr

bookmark


43 posted on 03/03/2008 2:29:12 PM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Pyro7480; wideawake

Absolutely, but I think you left out the most famous one, Whittaker Chambers.


44 posted on 03/03/2008 2:29:16 PM PST by jammer
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To: All
William F. Buckley Jr. dies at age 82

By Carol Zimmermann Catholic News Service

WASHINGTON – William F. Buckley Jr., a Catholic with an extraordinary gift for the spoken and written word who was dubbed the godfather of modern American conservatism, died Feb. 27 at his home in Stamford, Conn. He was 82.

The commentator suffered from diabetes and emphysema, but the exact cause of death was not known. Buckley was found dead at the desk in his study where he reportedly had been writing.

“He died with his boots on, after a lifetime of riding pretty tall in the saddle,” his son, Christopher, was quoted as saying.

Funeral arrangements had not been announced as of Feb. 28.

Buckley may have been best known for his work with the National Review, a conservative political magazine he founded in 1955 and where he served as editor until 1990. He also wrote more than 50 books as diverse as spy novels and a book on sailing. He wrote an account of his Catholic beliefs in the 1997 book “Nearer, My God: An Autobiography of Faith.”

He also was a television host for more than 30 years for the PBS program “Firing Line.”

Buckley was born in New York in 1925, the sixth of 10 children. His father, who made his multimillion-dollar fortune in oil, had his children educated by personal tutors at the Buckley family estate in Sharon, Conn., and Catholic schools in England and France.

Buckley served in the Army from 1944 to 1946, and then attended Yale University, where he studied political science, economics and history. In 1951 he published his first book, “God and Man at Yale: The Superstitions of Academic Freedom,” accusing the university’s faculty of a bias against religion, individualism and capitalism.

In 1961, Buckley was criticized by the editors of America magazine, a national Catholic weekly magazine run by the U.S. Jesuits, over comments he had supposedly made that were critical of Pope John XXIII’s encyclical “Mater et Magistra” (“Mother and Teacher”).

An article critical of the encyclical appeared in the National Review with the quip “Mater, si, magistra, no!” attributed to Buckley. The quip was a pun on an anti-American chant, “Cuba, si, yanqui, no,” in the news at the time.

The comment generated rounds of complaint letters and editorials on the topic along with an opinion piece in The New York Times in which Buckley complained about America magazine’s coverage.

A month after the controversy arose, Buckley wrote a letter to America’s editor in which he stated the comment was a “flippancy pure and simple” that had not come from him, but from a Catholic scholar and journalist who turned out to be Gary Wills, a contributor to the National Review in 1961.

Almost 30 years later, Buckley was again featured in America magazine. Prior to Pope John Paul II’s 1987 visit to the United States, Buckley was one of 10 prominent Catholics asked by the magazine to respond to the question: “If you had five minutes alone with the pope, what would you say?”

In Buckley’s hypothetical address to the pope, he noted that he wished to pass along “apparently trivial complaints,” such as the failure of the Second Vatican Council to increase the “universal appeal of the church.”

He bemoaned the loss of the Latin liturgy as a “shared sense of historical transcendence” and said he had “subjective doubts about some of the doctrinal questions you have elected to stress.”

He also said he believed “the church is never so grand as when it defies the spirit of the age.”

In a 1973 interview with The Evangelist, newspaper of the Diocese of Albany, N.Y., Buckley called the English-language Mass a “catastrophe.”

“It isn’t in the Catholic tradition of the last 500 years,” he said. “Mass was a bilateral not a trilateral experience. It was between us and God through the priest. Now it seeks to be between us, the priest and whoever else is there.”

One of the major problems with the Mass in English, he noted, was the translation, which he described as “enough to make anyone with concern for the language wince.”

“It is a major penance to recite it aloud. I am tempted at times to wear earmuffs in church,” he said.

In the interview, Buckley added that he was proud of the church for its stance against abortion, something he reiterated in his National Review columns.

In a 1997 interview broadcast on the PBS program “The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer,” Buckley was asked if there was one feature of the Catholic Church that kept him a Catholic. In response, he said it was “the centrality of the assumption that the Catholic Church is the church that was founded by Christ.”

When asked how he squared his conservative views with Catholic social teaching, he said, “There’s always a tendency in churches, as far as I can see, to say we’ve got to build one more gymnasium for the homeless. And I think we should build one more gymnasium – don’t get me wrong – but the attempt to suck spiritual energy into activity of that kind, in my judgment, doesn’t really pay off.”

Buckley’s wife of 56 years, Patricia Buckley, died in April 2007.

Besides son Christopher, an author and satirist who lives in Washington, Buckley is survived by two brothers, three sisters and two grandchildren.

45 posted on 03/03/2008 2:29:30 PM PST by mware (Americans in arm chairs doing the job that the media refuses to do.)
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To: jammer; wideawake

I thought Chambers was an Episcopalian.


46 posted on 03/03/2008 2:30:49 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Petronski

OMG. sorry about that.


47 posted on 03/03/2008 2:30:59 PM PST by mware (Americans in arm chairs doing the job that the media refuses to do.)
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To: Jim Robinson

WFB was hardly godless.

He was not a theocrat, but that is not the same as being godless. As far as I know, he was a faithful Catholic.

There are Catholics who are theocrats (mainly monarchists), but Buckley was not among them.

This guy (Lofton) seems to be a dispensationalist theocrat. Not my cup of tea. Takes all kinds, I suppose.


48 posted on 03/03/2008 2:31:24 PM PST by B Knotts (Calvin Coolidge Republican)
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To: Jim Robinson


Really needs this.

Buckley was the MAN in the movement. I've been a reader of NR since 1980.
49 posted on 03/03/2008 2:32:10 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: Petronski

I think you might find that the Calvinists have a different view of eschatology. There is a significant difference in this area of theology between most Calvinists and evangelicals.


50 posted on 03/03/2008 2:32:26 PM PST by Binghamton_native
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To: tacticalogic

Where did I mention FDR or Peabody?


51 posted on 03/03/2008 2:33:32 PM PST by Binghamton_native
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To: Jim Robinson
William F. Buckley’s ‘Conservative Movement’ Still-Born, Dead-On-Arrival, Decades Ago, Because it Was Godless, Against Christ, Ignored God’s Word

So if we worshiped Allah, all would be rosy? Before you react, Allah is an Arabic term to the one God.

Me. I would rather live by a constitution worked out by men. The author is nuts. Their insistence on religion driving the rules of society drives many individuals away from conservative parties.

52 posted on 03/03/2008 2:34:10 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (<I>)
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To: I still care

“SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”

Don’t confuse the Theocrats. It’s not nice.

We seem to have some people around that resemble Savonarola.


53 posted on 03/03/2008 2:34:32 PM PST by A Strict Constructionist (We have become an oligarchy not a Republic.)
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To: Jim Robinson
You may call it an "interesting viewpoint," Jim. I call it undistilled hatred of a brilliant man, the father of modern American conservatism, just days in his grave.

Why you would sanction such trash on your site, much less post it, baffles me.

54 posted on 03/03/2008 2:35:08 PM PST by southernnorthcarolina (May contain traces of tree nuts.)
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To: Jim Robinson
William F. Buckley’s ‘Conservative Movement’ Still-Born, Dead-On-Arrival, Because it Was Godless...

Having been very familiar with National Review and Buckley's 'Conservative Movement' since the early 80's, I can say this statement is nonsensical.
55 posted on 03/03/2008 2:36:33 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Petronski
A simple case of the Calvinist trashing the Catholic.

Which is funny, considering how much Calvin borrowed from Islam about God's sovereignty eclipsing all his other attributes.
56 posted on 03/03/2008 2:38:11 PM PST by aruanan
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

To be fair, the other extreme, where the common assumptions of Western Civilization, which derive from Christianity, is equally nutty.

The founders had it right. They recognized that God, as our Creator, gives us rights, and set out to protect those rights, while protecting the right for each man to worship from the interference of the state.


57 posted on 03/03/2008 2:38:14 PM PST by B Knotts (Calvin Coolidge Republican)
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To: Pyro7480

I think you’re right, except that some websites say he was a Quaker. Sorry I misread your post—went right to the names and substituted “Christianity” for “Catholicism” in your first clause. My error.


58 posted on 03/03/2008 2:38:16 PM PST by jammer
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To: Jim Robinson
When I first read this article, I thought the author might be expressing an anti-Catholic viewpoint, but then I read this:

The Lord Jesus Christ did not build the “conservative movement” house. Thus, it was a house built on sand, it fell and great has been the fall of it, a recent example of this fall being the “conservative movement’s” support for President of George W. Bush who has given us the most Godless, unconstitutional, debt-ridden, big spending Federal Government in our history.

President Bush may fairly be criticized for some things, but "Godless"?

59 posted on 03/03/2008 2:38:24 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Binghamton_native

You didn’t, but Peabody was also an advocate of government organizing society according to God’s laws.


60 posted on 03/03/2008 2:38:52 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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