NYT: McCain's Birthplace in Canal Zone Raises Eligibility Questions...

Drudge ^

[Kay Ludlow]

NYT: MCCAIN'S BIRTHPLACE IN CANAL ZONE RAISES ELIGIBILITY QUESTIONS...

[genxer]

No, they are just beginning the death of a thousand cuts against McCain as they did Dole. Little bits and pieces will stick. One person will remember the influence peddling, another will remember he might be cheating to get in. By the time the election rolls around, McCain will be corrupt/stupid/ineligible in enough people’s minds to remove any chance he has of pulling a miracle and winning.

You know i think you are right on this. Tonight @ church this lady was telling me how she couldn't vote for McCain because he is pro choicse . This is the Wisconsin story sticking too him. I dont' like mccain but one thing is is is pro life. Period.

[HawaiianGecko]

I'm not going to read past post #1 because it's late. So if I'm repeating some other poster's logic, I apologize in advance.

Here's what I consider the final argument of this subject. USC 8 Section 1401 says: "The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:" And number one on the list is: "a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"  Now, before you point out that it doesn't say 'natural born' it says citizen at birth, and that it is talking about people born within the boundaries of the United States and Senator McCain was born in Panama,  consider the paradox created if citizen at birth does NOT equal natural born.

Since anyone born inside the US is a citizen at birth (USC 8 Sec 1401) and most arguments are that a citizen at birth does not mean natural born and therefore a citizen at birth cannot be president... just how did 40 of our presidents become POTUS?  They were born in the United States, therefore, they are citizens at birth, they have legally been president, THEREFORE, they are natural born and at birth citizens.

Personally, I think dropping that into the lap of any judge is a winning argument.

[HawaiianGecko]

"I know a girl, born to two US citizens while on vacation in Canada, who was not considered a US citizen."

Read USC 8 Section 1401 paragraphs (a) and (c).  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html/a>

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

Paragraph (c) appears to be applicable to this girl you know. We know by law she is a citizen at birth by this very paragraph (c). There is no denying this IMO.

Now read paragraph (a) and notice that it covers over 300 million people in the United States, including at least 40 previous presidents, you, me and most members of Free Republic. Since we are all citizens at birth including at least 40 Presidents of the United States, a citizen at birth MUST also be a natural born citizen.

[palmer]

That statute says nothing about naturalization or natural born.

True, like many statutes they don't use the same terminology. But that's why there are lawyers and judges to make sense of it. Here's the interpretation I agree with:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1977679/posts?page=31#31

Your view may or may not be expressed by post 22 in the same thread, but I think 31 is a satisfactory answer.

[sodpoodle]

http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=731

Category: Politics International
Posted Thu Feb 08,2007 7:59 PM
ANDY MARTIN
Executive editor
ContrarianCommentary.com

Excerpt:
Obama’s attempts to portray his father as an ignorant ‘goat herd,’ moreover, were part of his attempts at ‘identity theft’ against his own father, designed to create an imaginary picture of Barack Sr. It is inconceivable that Obama’s father was ignorant of Kenyan law, since he served as a government official and held a Ph.D. from Harvard. And it is inconceivable that Obama Sr. never told his son that he was a Kenyan national. Why has ‘junior’ hidden this information for decades?” Martin will demand Friday.

“The American people, when deciding who to support for president, have a right to know if their ‘president’ is also a citizen of Kenya and owes dual loyalty to Kenya because he has never renounced his Kenyan citizenship.
______________________________________________________
(Interesting that NYT did not raise this conundrum)

[HonestConservative]

(One might also argue that the Canal Zone was not truly “foreign” as a U.S. possession at the time, but we can leave that out of the analysis.)

How can I argue a point that you are leaving out of the analysis? “as a U.S. possession at the time” IS my point.

NP

I’m done. I have no extra energy to argue a moot point. I am so sorry I brought it up.

[ExSoldier]

It may have felt like 110 degrees but even Panama City doesn’t have a monthly average of even 90 degrees as a daily high.

Triple canopy jungle holds heat like a sponge holds water. Very little in the way of breezes to cool the skin. 100+ degree (F) temps are common to most jungle environments. The central highlands of Vietnam were fairly cool compared to the sweltering heat of the Mekong Delta. All the time. The humidity is the worst. I've been in desert heat where we literally fried food on the top of a tank turret. But we didn't notice it so much because of the low humidity. Somebody would inevitably make a comment on the temps in the desert and a laconic voice doing a good imitation of the soldier from Aliens 2 would remark: Yeah but it's a dry heat dude!

[Dog Gone]

The humidity makes all the difference, as you well know.

If you sweat and it doesn’t evaporate, you’re not cooling off, but you are getting dehydrated.

I was hiking a trail in Manuel Antonio National Park in Costa Rica a couple of years ago. It was around 90 degrees I think and the trail was mostly in the shade. It was only about two miles long, and maybe climbed 1000 feet in elevation.

My shirt became absolutely soaked in sweat. I felt like I was going to die, and wanted to. The humidity that day prevented me from being able to cool off at all. It doesn’t matter what the temperature is if sweating doesn’t work.

[icwhatudo]

(One might also argue that the Canal Zone was not truly “foreign” as a U.S. possession at the time, but we can leave that out of the analysis.)

How can I argue a point that you are leaving out of the analysis?

Ummmm, I'm not leaving anything out of the analysis-that entire quote was author's words YOU posted that I cut and pasted. You know, the author you said you agreed with. :) Don't be upset with me that the author's words you posted (that you said you agreed with) somehow work against your argument.

“as a U.S. possession at the time” IS my point.

Ok, so then are you dropping your claim that Panama was US territory and instead saying it was a possession? Or are you saying a possession and a territory are the same thing?

I’m done. I have no extra energy to argue a moot point. I am so sorry I brought it up.

Sorry you feel that way, I've seen many people making the same claim and I'm really just trying to get proof either way. Good talking with ya :)

[eaglestar]

If this were true, then wouldn’t this also mean that anchor babies aren’t U.S. Citizens???

[bobsunshine]

Good Update. As usual, the NYT has the facts wrong or not completely investigated. They try to spin a non-issue. So I thought I'd add the following from a 1998 Washington Post article (H/T MacRanger):

Some might define the term "natural-born citizen" as one who was born on United States soil. But the First Congress, on March 26, 1790, approved an act that declared, "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States." That would seem to include McCain, whose parents were both citizens and whose father was a Navy officer stationed at the U.S. naval base in Panama at the time of John's birth in 1936.

Washington Post 1998

[kevinw]

No. In fact, none of us were.

[patriciaruth]

The medium is the message (one layman’s understanding):

I believe he was referring to the context that one appears in, the surroundings, the clothes, the projected attitude...

that your medium (that you are immersed in, what you paint your story with) is your message.

Dress and act as a good doctor...says, “This is a good doctor” and you don’t have to say it yourself.

Oil paint is a medium for expressing art on canvass. Watercolor is another medium. The medium is the message...
means that your choices of style around you tell the customer what the message is before you open your mouth to explain it.

[the invisib1e hand]

yeah, well, perhaps. I think McCluhan probably had that figured out in the second grade.

It's cliche now.

What's not cliche is how the media tells you things which say far more about the media than the things they purport to tell you about; the message being, not the subject, but the media. Or the 'medium' if you prefer.

That's the irony: that the message is about the messenger.

[wpa_mikeb]

I SO encourage the MSM and the left to go after McCain for his years as a POW and the military service of his father.

We all should be encouraging that.

Conservatives KNOW the MSM and the left hates the military. I want to hear the answer to the debate question posed to McCain and Obama -— “Do you agree with the Berkeley protesters who are vandalizing the Marine recruiter’s office and calling the Marines murderers?”

By the way, has John Murtha EVER apologized to that Marine?

[ExSoldier]

Military installations always look and are depressing.

Well that for sure is durn true! I remember a popular myth held about Fort Riley, KS that the last order given by General CUSTER as he departed for the Little Big Horn was: "Don't change a THING until I get back!" That order was followed to the letter....

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Thank you.

You are correct.

Every military installation I saw in the Canal Zone and the very few I saw elsewhere in the U.S. of A. were depressing.

My very best regards.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

“Fort Riley, KS that the last order given by General CUSTER as he departed for the Little Big Horn was: “Don’t change a THING until I get back!” That order was followed to the letter....”

I visited Fort Riley many years ago. I went there for dinner. I did see some wonderful historical buildings but didn’t see the family area. At that time… was it the 9th?…that was heading out to Vietnam. It was a very tense atmosphere.

[ExSoldier]

I visited Fort Riley many years ago. I went there for dinner. I did see some wonderful historical buildings but didn’t see the family area. At that time… was it the 9th?…that was heading out to Vietnam.

I used to be stationed with the 9th ID and for Vietnam it was located at Fort Lewis, WA. You're thinking of the 1st ID aka The Big ... Red .... One.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

I visited Fort Riley many years ago. I went there for dinner. I did see some wonderful historical buildings but didn’t see the family area.

At that time… was it the 9th?…It was headed out to Vietnam. It was a very tense atmosphere.