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For four years under a John McCain presidency

DoughtyOne,

I totally respect your opinion and your case is well stated. Normally we are on the same side of an issue, but I have to differ with you here.

How about some conjecture on an 8 year Obama presidency;

* China, Russia, Iran, Syria, and al queda are emboldened by our weak approach to defense of national interests.
* China takes over Taiwan, escalates subversive actions against Japan, has easier access to increase espionage against USA.
* Russia makes aggressive moves to re-capture Eastern Europe satellites, also extends military presence southward toward Iraq.
* Iran escalates attacks against US interests via surrogates and against NATO troops in Afghanistan.

* ...on and on...

And where are conservatives? Continued internal bickering about who is most like Reagan, who is the real future of conservatism, who is to blame for allowing Obama to be elected.

Do we really allow others to define conservatives?

Why can't we rebuild conservative influence from the ground up while McCain is President? At least the odds of our long term survival are better so we have a movement and a country to rebuild.

Many will say, 'the country has survived bad Dems before and can survive again'. Most likely, true enough. But not guaranteed. I like the odds better with McCain as President than with Obama as President for 8 years.

Another option is to work hard for a true conservative party candidate to run as a 3rd party. Considering the Dems are poised to be split apart, this may be a unique time in history and could allow us to truly pit liberalism versus conservatism on the national ballot under their true names. This can not be done under the current and historic baggage of "D" and "R".

If you and others work hard in a committed fashion to nominate and elect a different option for President, I totally respect that and as previously mentioned, believe we may have a moment in time here where we can 'blow up' both parties and create future face-offs of 'official' liberals versus 'official' conservatives.

For those who choose to sit on the sidelines, you certainly have that right, but just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

NewLand

For four years under a John McCain presidency

DoughtyOne,

I totally respect your opinion and your case is well stated. Normally we are on the same side of an issue, but I have to differ with you here. Okay, let's take a look.

How about some conjecture on an 8 year Obama presidency; Okay

* China, Russia, Iran, Syria, and al queda are emboldened by our weak approach to defense of national interests. If you think real hard, I'm sure you can see where we've been blowing it with China, Iran and North Korea already. Don't you think we're at best sending mixed signals today? What must it say to our enemies that we allow North Korea to have the bomb, and appear unphased by the idea Iran will soon have it?
* China takes over Taiwan, escalates subversive actions against Japan, has easier access to increase espionage against USA. I'm sorry, but the current administration hasn't shown the slightest bit of interpidation at China's endeavors. It all seems to be one great big joke when folks lament our financing of China's venture onto the world stage. If Reagan had implemented the plan with Russia that Bush has harbored with China, the could war would still be raging. As it is, we're doing our damndest to make sure a new one is facilitated ASAP.
* Russia makes aggressive moves to re-capture Eastern Europe satellites, also extends military presence southward toward Iraq. Tell me about the U.S./Russian summits that have taken place over the last eight years. What were there, one or two bilateral meetings? We have taken actions that didn't take Russia into consideration at all. Now we're fretting because Putin is fuming and has actually been playing patty cake with China. What did we expect? What did we expect our actions in Kosovo to garner us, knowing damned well Russia would oppose our actions? Our leadership has been woefully abysmal on many of the points you're thinking Obama will be worse on. Perhaps he will, but he'll sure have to work at it.
* Iran escalates attacks against US interests via surrogates and against NATO troops in Afghanistan. I wouldn't doubt it, but then Iran could do the same thing anyway. And for all the talk about the Republican party being better at mlitary actions, we have we done to take Iran down a notch or two BEFORE it goes nuclear?

* ...on and on... Yes, on and on. We just penned an agreement that gives the Canadian military the grounds to operate on U.S. soil. For the first time since the revolutionary war, we stand to have foreign troops on U.S. soil, as the guests of our dear President Bush. Oh he'll have moved on by then, but the damage will be done. Mexico is next.

You know what, we don't need Obama to screw things up. The Republican operatives have been doing a bang up job on their own. Le'ts talk about 70,000 Saudi Arabian citizens here on education visas. That's only about 3,500 19 man teams. You do know the significance of that don't you?

And where are conservatives? Continued internal bickering about who is most like Reagan, who is the real future of conservatism, who is to blame for allowing Obama to be elected. You're missing the point. It's not who's most like Reagan. It's who's most like Hillary or Obama or you name it. Our side is busy destroying the nation on it's own. You must be able to recognize to some degree that what I am addressing is a simple fact. We have 25 to 35 million foreign nationals in our nation. We don't know who they are, what nation they have come from, or what their intentions are. We don't know where they are working or even if they have terrorist connections. This is taking place on our watch.

Do we really allow others to define conservatives? Look, I know you have put a lot of thought into this, but I think you're ignoring a massive amount of subtrifuge on our side, to come to the conslusions you have.

Why can't we rebuild conservative influence from the ground up while McCain is President? At least the odds of our long term survival are better so we have a movement and a country to rebuild. While you are writing stuff like this, and I respect your thoughts more than you know, our leaders are busy implemented a three nation security plan that will in the end see our internal borders eased, and the flow between nations excellerate. There was an article on the forum just yesterday that addressed the issue of Canada complaining because it's citizens had to stop at the border and get checked out. Isn't it clear to you where this is heading? Do you think Bush, McCain or about 98% of the other republican office holders are going to put the kabosh on this? Hell no they won't. We're well on our way to a North American Union where a body of governance will sit above our own. Who is helping to facilitate that, Louis Farakan, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton? No, it is what passes for conservatives in the republican party, in conjunction with the likes of Ted Kennedy, Harry Ried and Nancy Pulosi.

Many will say, 'the country has survived bad Dems before and can survive again'. Most likely, true enough. But not guaranteed. I like the odds better with McCain as President than with Obama as President for 8 years. Do you realize we don't even be sovereign in eight years. It won't be two at the most before the three nation security arrangement is complete. It won't be three years after that before a North American Union is in place. Do you ever wonder why we started have three nation summits once a years about five years ago? It was so that both teams could meet, and their staffs iron out all the tens of thousands of pages of the next big 'screw the U.S.' deal.

Another option is to work hard for a true conservative party candidate to run as a 3rd party. Considering the Dems are poised to be split apart, this may be a unique time in history and could allow us to truly pit liberalism versus conservatism on the national ballot under their true names. This can not be done under the current and historic baggage of "D" and "R". IMO, our leaders have been running a big shell game on us all. While we sit her thinking it's Ds against Rs, it's really the U.N./C.F.R. running a game on all of us. The two main parties in the United States are on board the Council on Foreign Relations band wagon. It's been a pipe dream of theirs for a long time to have a Free Trade Agreement of the Americans, and ultimately a North American Union and eventually an American Union. I don't ask that you buy into this today. In time it will be so evident that nobody will be able to deny it. Don't get worked up over it. Give it some though and see if you don't move in that direction over time.

If you and others work hard in a committed fashion to nominate and elect a different option for President, I totally respect that and as previously mentioned, believe we may have a moment in time here where we can 'blow up' both parties and create future face-offs of 'official' liberals versus 'official' conservatives. Actually, but the time folks wake up to what is taking place it will be too late. We have pussy footed around to the place where our leaders are actually implementing the beginning steps of three nation governance. They're doing it on the sly. They're just making it seem all so reasonable. We're just kissing cousins with Canada, and this is just a civil defense measure. (Of course over 234 years we never needed this before) We keep voting for the lesser of twos. And those who wish to undo our self-determination are almost there. The Republicans put in rules so that anyone that would object to any of this is unelectable. And we continue to vote for the guys that think it's a Small Small World After All.

For those who choose to sit on the sidelines, you certainly have that right, but just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Go ahead and vote for John. If that's what you think is best, I encourage you to do so. Don't say I didn't warn you, and don't think I'm going to be consoled in three years when you realize I and a lot of other people were right all along. By then it will be too late to really care much.

NewLand

You know, I have argued from your side. I have voted for guys as leftist as Arnold Schwarzenegger. I can't do it any longer. One day you won't be able to either. Either you'll wake up, or you won't have that right any longer, or it won't matter anyway, because who you vote for will simply answer to someone above them that's making the real decisions and doesn't stand for election.

Most of the folks on that body will live outside the U.S., and our reps will have about as much power then as we do now.