Replies

No, it’s not misery loves company. It’s a love for the values we hold and not wanting to watch the party continually move left as we compromise more and more every election and settle for less and less. Eventually, conservatives have to take a stand or just fade away into minority status in the party.

Republicans didn’t even choose McCain. Our open primaries allowed independents to give him the edge he needed.

Anyway, one of my main sticking points with McCain is amnesty and illegals. Once we permanently add 12 million left-leaning voters to the rolls, the Republican party will have to shift their platform even further left just to try to get some of that voting block and the party counts on conservatives just coming along for the ride out of party loyalty and not wanting to see a Dem win.

Oh, I forgot...we’re supposed to be loyal to the RINO party no matter what they do.

Frankly, I’m a bit tired of being told that I’m a biggot by the likes of McCain simply because I oppose any form of illegal alien amnesty. I’m a bit tired of having my own party members trash the Constitution. I’m also a bit tired of having my religious faith targeted for attack by my “own” party members.

As a person whose wife worked for years both as a paid and volunteer campaign staff member on three different congressional campaigns and spend weeks volunteering full time to get “W” elected, and who hosted a number of Republican fundraisers in my home, I’ve grown a bit more than tired of the Republican Party. They’ve abandoned their base and what was their core beliefs. So, I see no dishonor in abandoning them.

First of all Bob, it is very condensending to challenge folks who don’t want to vote for a man who has helped bilk seniors out of their life savings from his potion in the Senate of the United States.

It is even more condesending to challenge them for not wanting to vote for a man who advocated that the MIA issue be laid to rest, so trade with Hanoi could commence.

It is amazingly condescending to challenge folks for not wanting to vote for a man who was stupid enough to co-sponsor (with his own name on it, no less), the McCain/Feingold bill, a bitch slap to the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

It is incredible to me, to see anyone challenge folks for not wanting to vote for a man who wanted to reward criminality as it applies to between 25 and 35 million foreign nationals on our soil in the United States. These folks are bleeding this nation dry, and John McCain cared so little about it that he actually reasoned that changing their illegal status to a legal status would ‘FIX EVERYTHING’. The man is a complete idiot on this issue.

It got so bad that John McCain hired a former staffer to the President of Mexico to advise him on U.S./Mexican relations, and help him devise policy. This person immediately came up with what he called “a Mexico First” policy, and when challenged on this fact, McCain actually defended the guy.

When our President was trying to face down the democrats over judicial appointments, John McCain short-circuited the effort by joining with the gang of fourteen. This adversely affected appointments to the ranks of federal judges across this nation.

This doesn’t even touch on the fact that for the last decade John McCain practically lived on the sets of Sunday morning talking head shows short-circuiting every Republican initiative he possibly could. from the postition that he knew better than anyone on every single issue. He was the poster boy “conservative” on those shows, insulting us anew with each embarassing performance.

Today John delivers speeches that are riddled with liberal buzzwords. For instance, his big policy speech from April 2007 on his energy goals wavered into liberal territory nine times addressing 24 catch phrase words or terms on 28 separate instances. Terms like carbon capture, carbon trades, greenhouse gases, global warming... these are the terms of John McCain, not Barak Obama. McCain essentially buys off on the Kyoto Protocals and wants to implement as much of it as he can, while smart enough not to do it officially (at least I think).

Despite all this, you can’t see any other reason why some of us would refuse to back McCain and ask others to do so, other than that it’s an ego trip for us, we need to have others join us to help buttress our fragile mental faculties or some other equally insulting nonsense.

What do you call folks who recognize the character of those who help defraud Seniors, and trash them for it? Mentally unstable? Insecure? In need of an attitude adjustment?

What do you call folks who recognize the character of those who pass laws that infringe on our Constitutional Amendments, and trash them for it? Irrational? Unreasonable? Sanctamoneous?

What do you call folks who recognize the character of those who advocated for the MIA issue being laid to rest, and trash them for it? UnAmerican? Anti-Military? Myopic?

I could go right down the line on these issues and you would agree with me in every instance that people are not wrong to oppose any of the things John McCain has done that I just listed. And then you’d turn right around and tell me that it’s just wrong not to vote for him.

Bob, you can reread your post and look at those comments you made about folks who will not support John. And after you have, realize they do not apply to them. They apply to you to the power of ten.

You folks are incredibly irrational on this matter.

When confronted on the issue of who will advocate for conservatism if John is president you folks don’t have an answer. When John reaches out to the democrats they won’t oppose him. Enough in his own party won’t opposed him to block his desires. And then there’s John himself. He and the Republican party leadership will be trashing conservatives in the exact same manner you have here. “You folks are fringe wing-nuts.” It is appauling that any person who calls themself a conservative could decide that being a part of this would be a great day for conservatism. And that being the case, how in the sam hell could it be a good day for the nation we supposedly love.

We have come to the place where we can watch a man disect Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, and then advocate for him to be President. And then turn our backs on loyal nation loving citizens who dispise what the man stands for, and insult them to their faces.

Tell me Bob, if running against a democrat for the office of the president, what single thing could a person do that John McCain hasn’t done, for you to be unable to vote for them? Haven’t you become the exact model of a Clinton supporter, only from the almighty (R) side of the isle? And then you come here to denigrate us.

There is a sickness in the land...

For four years under a John McCain presidency, the democrats will slander conservatives at will, even saying that they won’t even agree with one of their own, when John pulls what he will. During that time many Republicans will do the same thing, advocating for John. The Republican Party will trash them. John McCain will trash them. The media will trash them.

Sounds like an eventuality I can’t help to put in place. I oppose this scenario with every fiber of my being.

I will not be a part of surrendering to the leftist love fest that is certain to follow a McCain victory.

I would rather have an enemy to focus on and oppose, than an enemy that many of my team want to serve. I will not become a Clinton groupie!

If this turns into a place where “McCain, Day in Pictures” thread are fequent, “Pray for McCain” threads vs “Pray for our Nation” threads... it will have proven my point.

If John McCain wins the Presidency, it will be the end of movement conservatism, and the dawn of the age of the theory of conservatism, for it will not longer be an operating ideology in practice here in the homeland.

The reason I do not support McCain is simple and has been stated in various forms by many posters on this site, for those that listen:

We fear that a McCain presidency will set the conservative movement back for many, many years. Many of us think that the conservative movement will recover quicker with a Dem in office.

The way you framed your argument makes it seem like you’ve never been faced with the “vote for our liberal or you’ll get their liberal” dilemma.

Are you a conservative who is new to politics or have you just been real happy with our contenders for the last twenty years?

The reality of it is that many of us have figured it out and realize that we’ll be handed this dilemma every four years until we refuse to fold to the dilemma.

The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.

I am in this group, but I DO have 2 reasons:

(1) his assault on the First Amendment with his Campaign Finance Reform, which just happened to benefit him greatly in the current election cycle, and

(2) his persistence in trying to get amnesty for 12-60 million illegals, then his lying about it. His co-hort Lindsey Graham calling those who opposed it bigots didn't help.

I just don't see voting for McCain and expecting a different result, if he does win. It just isn't going to happen. McCain will continue to be McCain.

Allow me to explain, then.

I am not a party man, and I do not vote for any steaming pile the GOP figures it can serve up because I have no choice. You reward this behavior and shortly you find yourself in a country where Hillary might as well have won.

When you deliberately cast a vote for a candidate, you put your personal imprimatur on that candidate, which means you take personal responsibility for the direction he takes the country.

I will take no responsibility for the direction McCain will take the country, and see no destination difference between him and the democrat offerings.

I think we are being squeezed between the two parties, the only games in town, in a consistently socialist direction, democrat and republican alike.

I simply refuse to participate in the degradation of my homeland.

McCain just like Clinton and Barack is an enemy of conservatism and because he is running as a GOP candidate even more so. This is about principled conservatism and the future. I will fight this now and not wait till later when conservatives have lost even more ground.

I believe McCain, based on his past actions, will give a Democratic Congress everything they want. I’d rather concentrate on giving Obama or Hillary a Republican COngress to fight against. If we don’t get a Republican Congress I’d prefer to have a Democrat take us down the Socialist Road rather than a “Republican” like McCain.

One reason I can't support McCain, beyond every horrible anti-freedom bill with his name on it, is that I spoke in 2000 with a Congressman at a dinner and asked him why John McCain was not the supported Republican nominee. He said, "Because he would be a dictator and not work with Congress." This certainly seems to be an accurate assessment of McCain's personality. We talked a bit more, but he was completely opposed to John McCain.

Now, however, he has said in a recent interview that he will work with him, and that's the problem. He and other R's will work with McCain to advance those bills that are antithetical to conservatism, though not necessarily Big Tent Republicanism. Hillary and Obama would be utterly opposed.

So, now we have a nominee that, frankly, no one that I've seen is excited about, running against a rock star (presuming Hillary doesn't have Obama rubbed out). I can't tell you how many times I've been out and heard people talking about "Obama this, Obama that", and flipping through the newspaper reading about him. All those young people are going to be pulling the lever for "The First Black President" to become part of American History, and then voting "straight Democrat ticket".

What do you think the debates are going to look like to them? Regardless of whether Obama actually says anything meaningful or offers any real solution to anything, it will be "Young Black Rock Star versus Old Angry White Man." I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who faints at a McCain rally, unless it's from too many Centrum Silvers.

The point is that McCain stands and fights for very little of what I believe (and fights hardest for what I don't), and his "Maverick Republican" pedigree would only mean cooperation with fellow Republicans to advance those things, while a Democrat would be opposed. It almost seems that the Republican party has taken a dive this election.

Here is my list:
McCain/Feingold; McCain/Kennedy; Does not support human life amendment; supports federal funding of abortions; Does not support Federal Marriage Amendment; Does not support all plans for a North American Union; Did not sign the Americans for Tax Reform;Did not sign the pledge for no amnesty; he has a terrible temper and was a know womanizer in the past. Is that enough?

forget the past;
NOW
Repub primaries: lesser of 2 evils
Dem primaries: the 2 greatest liberal thinkers of our time (just ask them)

The problem is actually very simple!

What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.

Might I suggest you start by reading one of the many other threads that have covered this territory, ad nauseum?

Keyword: yayanothervanity

When the McCain haters started telling me that Romney was a conservative they lost all their credibility.

Thank you for this clear thinking post.

I have to sound the alarm: Danger! Alligators are in the water!

Hey Bob, vote for him if you want to. I won’t. There is no real conservative case to vote for him.

My answer to this whole problem. Vote for whoever you want, that is your right, most likely conservatism will die with this election.

Frankly, I am sick of it all, and am more sickened by phony conservatives.

"Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain."

McCain is not "closer to the left than to us" on certain issues, he is in the SAME PLACE as Hillary and Obama and will do an equal amount of damage to the country as either of them will do. The difference is if McCain should by some strange stroke of fate be elected, he will destroy the Republican party, force conservatives to find a new party, AND the damage he does to the country will be blamed on conservatives, not on Republicans or the left. Surely, that isn't too hard to understand unless you think he's just a tad bit to the left "of us" and we should ditch our conservative principles just a little bit to support him.

I would no more vote for McCain than I would consider voting for either of the Democrats and for exactly the same reason - they're all PROGRESSIVE puppets of George Soros, Theresa Heinz, etc. None of the three would be where they are right now if they were not bought and paid for, willing to do the bidding of the elites to destroy our sovereignty. If you're comfortable ratifying their sell-out of this country, then vote for him, or any of the three, but I will not.

Over 300 posts in 2 hours. You know how to stir people up, Bob.

The way that I see it is that is isn’t that we in Group Three are trying to shoot McCain down (no pun intended) as much as we are defending our decision to vote for our principles.

You have made the case for voting for him and you (from what I’ve seen) done it without denigrating those who disagree with your view. I respect that even though I am solidly in Group 3.

I think that you see us as vociferous because we are responding to nasty attacks telling us that we are leftists who want a dem to win. Or worse. I/we just don’t see that much of a difference between the candidates or much or a difference in the outcome, regardless of who wins in November. Maybe I am missing it, but I have only seen intolerance for McCain, not his supporters. But many of his supporters here have made this personal against us.

So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain?

He's unfit for office.

Free Republic Opinion Poll:
Would you be for or against McCain?
Member Opinion
against 92.4% 2,989
for 7.6% 247

McCain: Hillary Would Be Good President Feb. 2005

How John McCain Threatens the Pro-Life Cause By Douglas Johnson NRLC Legislative Director

More YOUTUBE - McCain On Abortion (UH OH! YouTube Has a Video of Him in 1999)

McCain and Stem Cell Research Round-up

Tom Delay On Faux "McCain Has Done More To Hurt The Party" VIDEO

John McCain: "My Conservative Record" YouTube VIDEO

McCain and 'the Constitution'

John McCain, Jack Kemp and Hugo Chavez.

MORE GUN CONTROL: McCAIN-LIEBERMAN FR April '01

Gun Owners of America on McCain's Record.

GUNS AND SCHOOLS: THE POLITICS (McCain tries to grab guns, 1999)

CITIZENS COMMITTEE URGES JOHN McCAIN TO RETIRE FROM UNITED STATES SENATE
Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA)

John McCain Losing His Cool YouTube video

Vietnam Veterans Against McCain YouTube video

McCain Argues for U.S. Troop Withdrawl from Somalia Mr. Blackhawk Down (YouTube VIDEO)

McCain Group Got Big Cable Donation Breath taking corruption, Senator!

THE PAMPERED POLITICIAN - John McCain Keating 5 and other things. FR Nov. '99

McCain gives nod to Kerry campaign (MAJOR RINO ALERT!) June 2003

MAFIA, EMPRISE, DELAWARE NORTH, DON BOLLES, BRUCE BABBITT, BILL CLINTON...AND JOHN McCAIN?
McCain married into the mob.

The Real McCain

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: THE ULTIMATE "RHINESTONE HERO"

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: THE ULTIMATE "RHINESTONE HERO" Part II

John McCain Is No Hero

John McCain: The Manchurian Candidate

JOHN MCCAIN, WARTS AND ALL

The War Secrets Sen. John McCain Hides

John McCain's Skeleton Closet

A number of articles on McCain. (some the same as above)

McCain Seeks to Change California Primary

John McCain funded by Soros since 2001

John McCain Gets Soros Cash

McCain/Soros by Rabbi Areyh Spero

McCain-Soros Toppled GOP Candidates Nov. 21, 2006

Soros' "Reform" (an article about Soros‘ instrumental hand in McCain/Feingold)

John McCain: George Soros' Useful Idiot?

Through The Weeds; John McCain, George Soros and the Reform Institute

McCain’s Reform Institute donor list:

Reform Institute greatfully acknowleges Sen. McCain as past Chairman:

McCain's Letter (McCain aligns with Global Enviro activists)

The Turning Point on Global Warming (McCain and Lieberman Op-Ed Alert)

Climate bill sets stage for debate (Sens. McCain, Obama, and Lieberman join forces)

McCain: Global warming is fact, must be addressed [hurl alert]

McCain Sides With Leading Dems on Global Warming (NH voter reminder ALERT

EIA's Analysis of the Lieberman-McCain Climate Change Bill Human Events

McCain's Nose-Under-the-Tent Strategy - McCain's "Climate Stewardship Act" (S. 139), co-sponsored with Senator Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.)

Kyoto Through the Back Door? A Debate on the Lieberman –McCain Climate Stewardship Act - Heritage Foundation

Promising Vote on Global Warming - "But Mr. McCain, as we know, does not give up easily. ... He promises to be just as tenacious on this issue."

McCain Is Booed by Labor Activists

Captains of Industry Could Populate McCain Cabinet ( Lieberman Potential Cabinet Member)

McCain Still Disliked by Fiscal Conservatives (Club For Growth)

McCain calls Jeffords' switch lesson for GOP FR May '01

McCain Antics Weary Arizonans in G.O.P. FR June '01

McCain may leave Republican Party to fight Bush in 2004 FR July '01

How Bill Kristol ditched conservatism. Great Escape (Gave floundering McCain 2000 campaign a direction.)

McCain may leave Republican Party to fight Bush in 2004
His staff set up policy think-tanks and other groups to lay the ideological foundations for another third-party challenge in the Bull Moose style.

McCain Looked into Caucusing with Democrats

John McCain Goes Left for Money

McCain, Obama Make Deal on Financing

Sens. Snowe, Collins to head Maine exploratory committee for McCain

John Kerry: McCain Approached Me About Joining Dem Ticket in 2004

Democrats say McCain nearly abandoned GOP

McCain denies he was close to quitting GOP

Double Talk Express. McCain in his own words. VIDEO

John McCain's Newt Problem (Infidelity to first wife.)

How Cindy McCain was outed for drug addiction(stole drugs from the American Voluntary Medical Team) (McCain used his influence to cover it up.)

McCain and his Chicom Connections: Posts #17 and #18 by Calpernia

TEN REASONS NOT TO SUPPORT MCCAIN (Free Republic thread from 2000)

McCain Ties to Lobbyists Troublesome - Newsmax Staff

McCain Blames Bush For Osama's Escape

McCain Rides to Kerry's Rescue: "John Kerry is Not Weak on Defense" (Today Show alert)

The Real McCain Record Obstacles in the way of conservative support.

McCain Is the Amnesty Candidate

John McCain SCREAMS AT 9/11 FSA MEMBERS FOR OPPOSING HIS BILL TO GIVE AMNESTY FOR ILLEGALS

It depends on the meaning of “never” (McCain's Convenient Memory)

UN Double Talk from Straight Talker McCain (Law of the Sea Treaty)

The Conservative Case Against John McCain In 2008

John McCain: Hypocrite by Mark R. Levin

This Man is Not a Republican (re: McCain) (FR thread - Jan. 2000)

Freeper Alert: Sen. KERRY / Communist Vietnamese Killing Off Christains in Central Highlands... (...with Senator McCAIN (R) in complete agreement with him, is because "Engagement" with Communist Vietnam is better for the people of Vietnam in the long run.)

McCAIN AND THE KLA CONNECTION

*************************************************************

McCain says:

"Why don't you shut your political pie hole?"

Stifling the www? Online Freedom of Speech Act (H.R. 1606)

"1606 is needed because federal courts have ordered the Federal Election Commission to regulate "electioneering communications" on the Internet because of the Bipartisan Campaign Finance Reform Act (McCain-Feingold). If H.R. 1606 fails to become law, your Web site or blog could be shut down for the 30 days prior to a primary election and the 60 days prior to a general election should you express "electioneering communications."

John McCain, enemy of free speech

Not Child‘s Play [McCain/Schumer bill could effect FR?]

John McCain, you treasonous bastard, I challenge you or any of your traitorous cohorts... (thread by Jim Robinson)

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FR links on McCain's record from Feb. 2000. MrChips collection.

If you can’t figure it out, no one here is going to be able to explain it to you.