Posted on 02/10/2008 5:11:36 PM PST by GOP_Lady
CLEVELAND -- Underground nightclubs where patrons can smoke freely and watch strippers after midnight have opened in some of the city's residential neighborhoods since the state began enforcing new restrictions on strip clubs and public smoking last year, police say.
Some of the nightclubs, also called "smokehouses," offer customers the opportunity to have sex with prostitutes, police said.
"They have succeeded in creating this underground, sleazy, cash-only business that cannot be regulated, taxed or secured by police," said attorney Skip Lazzaro, who represents legal nightclubs.
Informants have told police that patrons are mostly white suburban men. Customers bring their own liquor, cigarettes and cigars. A reference is sometimes required for entry, and doormen collect as much as $25, billed as a fee for a buffet. Some clubs also provide condoms.
The smokehouses are comparable to the illegal gin houses, or "speakeasys" that operated during Prohibition in the 1920s and early 1930s, Cleveland police Detective Tom Shoulders said.
"You put too many restrictions on people, they're going to find someplace else to go for their entertainment," he said.
A law banning dancers at adult clubs from touching patrons or each other, and also halts nude dancing after midnight, went into effect last fall.
The smoking ban, passed by Ohio voters in November 2006, outlaws indoor smoking in most public places. Local health departments began enforcing that law in May.
Police haven't been able to raid the underground clubs, because neighbors haven't been complaining, Shoulders said. Police have asked landlords to monitor activities in their rental homes.
"These guys aren't stupid," Lazzaro said of the smokehouse operators. "They know that if they want to stay open, they have to fly below the radar, avoid complaints and the attention of neighbors."
Detective Joe Bovenzi, a member of Shoulders' vice team, predicted the smokehouses would eventually be closed.
"Someone will be treated wrongly and drop a dime," he said. "Or there will be fights or shootings, and we'll move in."
I agree with you up to a point. However, since we don’t live in a vacuum, I guess my point stops in a different place. Not to use a rather tired slogan, but children are involved here. Children who are influenced, children who are aborted, children who have to grow up fatherless which is a well documented disadvantage, etc. So I think even a classic libertarian, considering the extensive damage done to minors, might be able to hold my position.
I started doing that 3 or 4 years ago when they raised the tobacco tax $1 a pack here in Oklahoma. I have 3 different variaties stored up now along with a lot of seed. It can be a fair amount of work, but it’s a fun hobby and legal to boot. Send me a note and I’ll fill you in or go to coffinnails.com for loads of info. That’s were I got my startup seeds.
Well, maybe them being 'underground' isn't such a bad thing. I've never seen an area of town where a strip club has opened that hasn't gone downhill.
(edited tag line) First post sorry....
How many of these women do you know personally? None of the ones we ever ran into in our ministries to the homeless were ever happy or enjoyed their lives. They got into prostitution out of desparation or because their self-esteem was so low they felt they weren't worth anything else.
Well, dang, dude, I need to hang out more with you.
So much cheaper to run a speakeasy than to actually open a bar. Just the liquor license alone will set you back.
Both of your points are certainly correct - maybe you do understand economics better than you give yourself credit for. :-)
Your 1st point about the IRS is correct and the FairTax would not take effect until the income tax in eliminated via constitutional amendment.
Underground economies will always exist as well, but with the FairTax everyone is really part of an underground economy which is really one of the primary appeals of the system.
Under the FairTax, it doesn’t matter if you make $70K as a engineer, drug dealer or prostitute - everyone is only taxed when they by a retail item.
Let’s keep in mind that Huckabee is for a Nationwide smoking ban.....
Let’s keep in mind that Huckabee is for a Nationwide smoking ban.....
Thanks for the compliment. I did fall asleep in economics class in college though... ;)
Seriously, from what I have read about the FairTax, the only serious flaw is that it’s a little bit utopian. Too much of what Huckabee supports necessitates a constitutional amendment, and it’s just not that easy to pull off. Getting rid of the IRS is slightly harder than melting the Wicked Witch to get the broomstick.
I really liked what Thompson was saying about the flatter tax. Now that is a path that can actually lead from where we are today. That might be the better way to go at this point. He was all for abolishing the death tax, too.
Well put.
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