72 Virgins as Heavenly Reward

[Shery]

I’ve asked that question, but it brings a look of shock to everyone’s face! How dare anyone question the Quran!

[meandog]

[x_plus_one]

72 houris = 72 female demons = take your pick on their level of chastity. What kind of culture has nothing better to offer than demonic females in the afterlife?

[najida]

You’ve got some major issues with sex doncha darlin’?

[Cold Heat]

The white grape is a simply a code word, a visualized representation of a beautiful virgin. It's just more evidence that this religion was severely damaged by centuries of uncontrolled savagery of the mind, body and spirit of the original intent.

Not to say that this is uncommon. But it is the worst of all the cases where this happened over time.

[generalhammond]

What do Islamic women have to look forward to?? A damn good question. Here's a snippet I cut from a web encyclopedia:

Ordinary Muslim women may also go to heaven, where each is said to have just one husband, usually her earthly husband. Thus the hur appear to join earthly wives as additional heavenly companions for men.

In other words, they stand in line behind the whores for attention from their earthly husband. Islam sucks, don't it.

[AnalogReigns]

“For reasons, perhaps known to others, Christianity brought women into ill repute and denied them their previous role in religious worship.”

This is also a bogus statement. At the height of civilization, before Christianity...the Greco-Roman world, women were considered but property (much as in the Islamic world they still are). Its not even very common to find Greek statues of women—so inferior were they considered to be in this most-enlightened of pagan societies. Jesus had female followers, and the gospels record his conversations with them—clearly he gave women dignity like no other Rabbi—or pagan religion—before Him.

The ascetic movement within Christianity (starting in the 200s AD) coalesced with pagan views of spirituality (that spirit is good, and material/body is bad...) to elevate the state of virginity to a higher level of spirituality (something the bible never says...) and hence women and a sexual life (yes in marriage) in general were disparaged—and continued to be so up through the middle ages.

While honoring marriage by performing his first miracle at a wedding, Jesus made it clear that sex & marriage were not a part of life in heaven
“At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” (Mat. 22:30)
and the Apostle Paul made it clear that he wished due to their difficult times people would be like he was (single) (I Cor. 7:26ff)...these teachings in no way make marriage a 2nd class way of a Christian life—as the ascetics and the typical view in the Middle Ages made it out to be. (I Cor. 7 is actually also where St. Paul commands married people that they owe it to their spouse to have sex...).

No, Christians didn’t worship fertility goddesses and gods like almost all pagans did in the ancient world...and, they also didn’t do the human sacrifice of babies—that most societies did as well. Many of the first generations of Christians went to their deaths simply because the refused to worship one more particular “god,” namely the Roman emperor. (To your average pagan, adding worship of one more god was no big deal...).

To say though, as does the usual politically correct liberal feminist spin of history, that Christianity itself disparaged sex since they stopped visiting temple prostitutes...(the usual “celebration” of sexuality in the ancient pagan world) is as much bunk as the claim that all religions but Islam disparage sex.

The extreme asceticism of the medieval church was indeed wrong, but that doesn’t make the pagan infanticidal darkness which was before a loving paradise.

Islam has a sensual heaven because first, they haven’t paid attention to Jesus teachings, and psychologically, probably just because their normal lifestyle is so segregated between the sexes. The “asceticism” they practice, by never interacting with women except for sex.... breeds frustration....and hence they see heaven as endless sensuality. It is a corrupt religion truly—mainly because they are blind to the bible.

[RightWhale]

The problem is that documentation has been revealed that supposedly might show the Koran was not composed as stated in history. Some of it existed long before the official date of composition and the present version was composed, redacted much later. The sidebar of the image of 72 pure white grapes that might be very appealing to someone who has never seen pure water because he lives in the middle of a dusty hot desert and can only imagine what it might be like is not the issue.

[TChad]

Leave it to the Muzzies to turn heaven into a whorehouse. What do women get when they get to heaven?

They get free cell phones, so they can chat eternally with the other virgins while jihadi-boy covers his ears and says "Please Allah, please make them shut up!"

[najida]

Actually, her job in heaven is to take care of the houris. (no joke)

[america4vr]

Thank you for your understanding. I have difficulty sometimes deciding which category to post my comments to.

[xp38]

While the grape thing is interesting the its hard for me to think todays jihadis are blowing themselves up for them. I think it has to do more with the all consuming vision they have of Islam and its supremicist outlook along with sex thing.

[america4vr]

LOL. Very well said. From my description of it, it would seem so.

[NYer]

I actually have a a theory where the whole 72 virgins might work:

You all seem to have ignored LucyT's post and link. Too often on FR, folks tend not to read those links, so here is the information. This is the most plausible explanation for how the Koran was b*dized over the centuries.

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The Virgins and the Grapes: the Christian Origins of the Koran

A German scholar of ancient languages takes a new look at the sacred book of Islam. He maintains that it was created by Syro-Aramaic speaking Christians, in order to evangelize the Arabs. And he translates it in a new way

by Sandro Magister                                

ROMA - That Aramaic was the lingua franca of a vast area of the ancient Middle East is a notion that is by now amply noted by a vast public, thanks to Mel Gibson´s film "The Passion of the Christ," which everyone watches in that language.

But that Syro-Aramaic was also the root of the Koran, and of the Koran of a primitive Christian system, is a more specialized notion, an almost clandestine one. And it´s more than a little dangerous. The author of the most important book on the subject - a German professor of ancient Semitic and Arabic languages - preferred, out of prudence, to write under the pseudonym of Christoph Luxenberg. A few years ago, one of his colleagues at the University of Nablus in Palestine, Suliman Bashear, was thrown out of the window by his scandalized Muslim students.

In the Europe of the 16th and 17th centuries, mangled by the wars of religion, scholars of the Bible also used to keep a safe distance with pseudonyms. But if, now, the ones doing so are the scholars of the Koran, this is a sign that, for the Muslim holy book as well, the era of historical, linguistic, and philological re-readings has begun.

This is a promising beginning for many reasons. Gerd-Rüdiger Puin, a professor at Saarland University in Germany and another Koran scholar on the philological level, maintains that this type of approach to Islam´s holy book can help to defeat its fundamentalist and Manichean readings, and to bring into a better light its ties with Judaism and Christianity.

The book by "Christoph Luxenberg" came out in 2000 in Germany with the title "Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart des Koran" ("A Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran"), published in Berlin by Das Arabische Buch. It is out of print, and there are no translations in other languages. But a new, updated edition (again in German) is about to arrive in bookstores.

Here follows an interview with the author, published in Germany in the newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" and in Italy in "L´espresso," no. 11, March 12-18, 2004:


From the Gospel to Islam

An interview with "Christoph Luxenberg" by Alfred Hackensberger


Q. - Professor, why did you think it useful to conduct this re-reading of the Koran?

A. - "Because, in the Koran, there are many obscure points that, from the beginning, even the Arab commentators were not able to explain. Of these passages it is said that only God can comprehend them. Western research on the Koran, which has been conducted in a systematic manner only since about the middle of the 19th century, has always taken as its base the commentaries of the Arab scholars. But these have never gone beyond the etymological explanation of some terms of foreign origin."

Q. - What makes your method different?

A. - "I began from the idea that the language of the Koran must be studied from an historical-linguistic point of view. When the Koran was composed, Arabic did not exist as a written language; thus it seemed evident to me that it was necessary to take into consideration, above all, Aramaic, which at the time, between the 4th and 7th centuries, was not only the language of written communication, but also the lingua franca of that area of Western Asia."

Q. - Tell us how you proceeded.

A. - "At first I conducted a ´synchronous´ reading. In other words, I kept in mind both Arabic and Aramaic. Thanks to this procedure, I was able to discover the extent of the previously unsuspected influence of Aramaic upon the language of the Koran: in point of fact, much of what now passes under the name of ´classical Arabic´ is of Aramaic derivation."

Q. - What do you say, then, about the idea, accepted until now, that the Koran was the first book written in Arabic?

A. - "According to Islamic tradition, the Koran dates back to the 7th century, while the first examples of Arabic literature in the full sense of the phrase are found only two centuries later, at the time of the ´Biography of the Prophet´; that is, of the life of Mohammed as written by Ibn Hisham, who died in 828. We may thus establish that post-Koranic Arabic literature developed by degrees, in the period following the work of al-Khalil bin Ahmad, who died in 786, the founder of Arabic lexicography (kitab al-ayn), and of Sibawwayh, who died in 796, to whom the grammar of classical Arabic is due. Now, if we assume that the composition of the Koran was brought to an end in the year of the Prophet Mohammed´s death, in 632, we find before us an interval of 150 years, during which there is no trace of Arabic literature worthy of note."

Q. - So at the time of Mohammed Arabic did not have precise rules, and was not used for written communication. Then how did the Koran come to be written?

A. - "At that time, there were no Arab schools - except, perhaps, for the Christian centers of al-Anbar and al-Hira, in southern Mesopotamia, or what is now Iraq. The Arabs of that region had been Christianized and instructed by Syrian Christians. Their liturgical language was Syro-Aramaic. And this was the vehicle of their culture, and more generally the language of written communication."

Q. - What is the relationship between this language of culture and the origin of the Koran?

A. - "Beginning in the third century, the Syrian Christians did not limit themselves to bringing their evangelical mission to nearby countries, like Armenia or Persia. They pressed on toward distant territories, all the way to the borders of China and the western coast of India, in addition to the entire Arabian peninsula all the way to Yemen and Ethiopia. It is thus rather probable that, in order to proclaim the Christian message to the Arabic peoples, they would have used (among others) the language of the Bedouins, or Arabic. In order to spread the Gospel, they necessarily made use of a mishmash of languages. But in an era in which Arabic was just an assembly of dialects and had no written form, the missionaries had no choice but to resort to their own literary language and their own culture; that is, to Syro-Aramaic. The result was that the language of the Koran was born as a written Arabic language, but one of Arab-Aramaic derivation."

Q. - Do you mean that anyone who does not keep the Syro-Aramaic language in mind cannot translate and interpret the Koran correctly?

A. - "Yes. Anyone who wants to make a thorough study of the Koran must have a background in the Syro-Aramaic grammar and literature of that period, the 7th century. Only thus can he identify the original meaning of Arabic expressions whose semantic interpretation can be established definitively only by retranslating them into Syro-Aramaic."

Q. - Let´s come to the misunderstandings. One of the most glaring errors you cite is that of the virgins promised, in the Islamic paradise, to the suicide bombers.

A. - "We begin from the term ´huri,´ for which the Arabic commentators could not find any meaning other than those heavenly virgins. But if one keeps in mind the derivations from Syro-Aramaic, that expression indicated ´white grapes,´ which is one of the symbolic elements of the Christian paradise, recalled in the Last Supper of Jesus. There´s another Koranic expression, falsely interpreted as ´the children´ or ´the youths´ of paradise: in Aramaic: it designates the fruit of the vine, which in the Koran is compared to pearls. As for the symbols of paradise, these interpretive errors are probably connected to the male monopoly in Koranic commentary and interpretation."

Q. - By the way, what do you think about the Islamic veil?

A. - "There is a passage in Sura 24, verse 31, which in Arabic reads, ´That they should beat their khumurs against their bags.´ It is an incomprehensible phrase, for which the following interpretation has been sought: ´That they should extend their kerchiefs from their heads to their breasts.´ But if this passage is read in the light of Syro-Aramaic, it simply means: ´They should fasten their belts around their waists.´"

Q. - Does this mean the veil is really a chastity belt?

A. - "Not exactly. It is true that, in the Christian tradition, the belt is associated with chastity: Mary is depicted with a belt fastened around her waist. But in the gospel account of the Last Supper, Christ also ties an apron around his waist before washing the Apostles´ feet. There are clearly many parallels with the Christian faith."

Q. - You have discovered that Sura 97 of the Koran mentions the Nativity. And in your translation of the famous Sura of Mary, her "birthgiving" is "made legitimate by the Lord." Moreover, the text contains the invitation to come to the sacred liturgy, to the Mass. Would the Koran, then, be nothing other than an Arabic version of the Christian Bible?

A. - "In its origin, the Koran is a Syro-Aramaic liturgical book, with hymns and extracts from Scriptures which might have been used in sacred Christian services. In the second place, one may see in the Koran the beginning of a preaching directed toward transmitting the belief in the Sacred Scriptures to the pagans of Mecca, in the Arabic language. Its socio-political sections, which are not especially related to the original Koran, were added later in Medina. At its beginning, the Koran was not conceived as the foundation of a new religion. It presupposes belief in the Scriptures, and thus functioned merely as an inroad into Arabic society."

Q. - To many Muslim believers, for whom the Koran is the holy book and the only truth, your conclusions could seem blasphemous. What reactions have you noticed up until now?

A. - "In Pakistan, the sale of the edition of ´Newsweek´ that contained an article on my book was banned. Otherwise, I must say that, in my encounters with Muslims, I have not noticed any hostile attitudes. On the contrary, they have appreciated the commitment of a non-Muslim to studies aimed at an objective comprehension of their sacred text. My work could be judged as blasphemous only by those who decide to cling to errors in the interpretation of the word of God. But in the Koran it is written, ´No one can bring to the right way those whom God induces to error.´"

Q. - Aren´t you afraid of a fatwa, a death sentence like the one pronounced against Salman Rushdie?

A. - "I am not a Muslim, so I don´t run that risk. Besides, I haven´t offended against the Koran"

Q. - But you still preferred to use a pseudonym.

A. - "I did that on the advice of Muslim friends who were afraid that some enthusiastic fundamentalist would act of his own initiative, without waiting for a fatwa."

__________


Divine Verses


Koran, in Arabic Qur´an, means recitation or reading. It is an essential element of the Islamic faith that it was always with God and "descended" in its fullness to Mohammed at the moment of his call as a prophet, called the "night of destiny." It is in Arabic, and it may be ritually recited only in this language. It is divided into 114 Suras, or chapters, and each Sura is divided into verses. The first Sura, called "the unstopping," is a brief prayer that plays an important role in worship and everyday life. The following Suras are ordered according to length, from longest to shortest. According to the tradition, Mohammed gradually communicated to his faithful the parts of the Koran revealed to him. The oldest Suras are called those "of Mecca"; that later ones, "of Medina." The most ancient Suras are of a markedly theological character, while the Suras of Medina are more juridical, dictating the ordering of the community. For Sunni Islam,.the Koran may not be put to criticism, given its divine nature: in any case, the "door of interpretation" of the Koran has been closed since the 11th century.

A link to the full text of the Koran, in an English translation:

> The Sacred Koran

__________


An elaborated guide to the new historical-linguistic readings of the Koran, on a page of the blog parapundit.com:

> "Newsweek" Article About Christoph Luxenberg On Koran Banned In Pakistan

And an investigation by Alexander Stille in the "New York Times," March 4, 2002:

> Scholars Scrutinize the Koran's Origin

__________


The commentary of professor Gian Maria Vian on the interview with "Christoph Luxenberg," printed on Sunday, March 14 in the newspaper of the Italian bishops´ conference, "Avvenire":

> I filologi e il Corano

Gian Maria Vian, a professor of patristic philology at Rome´s "La Sapienza" university, is the author of an important essay on twenty centuries of Christian texts, beginning with Sacred Scripture:

> Quella scrittura che comincia in Galilea (29.8.2001)

__________


In the Muslim world, the view of the Koran peculiar to the Ismailis, open to multiple interpretations and to a positive relationship with the Jewish and Christian faiths:

> The Other Islam. The Peaceful Revolution of the Ismaili Shiites

[RightWhale]

The problem with the timing of the composition of the Koran is vital, but it might amount to nothing after all since most of those who would be concerned are illiterate and those here who might ‘get it’ don’t seem to. 1.3 billion should be having a crisis of basic belief, but it doesn’t seem to be happening, and possibly because most are already beyond that just as most Christians are beyond that ‘literal’ thing.

[Gamecock]

religions have always looked upon the sex act as being of the Devil, as vile, unholy, unclean, as a necessary evil to be engaged in for the sake of procreation only.

Not exactly. Reformed Christianity sees the marital bed as an expression/reflection of Christ's love towards the elect.

I am sure some of your eyebrows are up, but consider the following quote by John Piper.

God created human beings in his image—male and female he created them, with capacities for intense sexual pleasure, and with a calling to commitment in marriage and continence in singleness. And his goal in creating human beings with personhood and passion was to make sure that there would be sexual language and sexual images that would point to the promises and the pleasures of God’s relationship to his people and our relationship to him. In other words, the ultimate reason (not the only one) why we are sexual is to make God more deeply knowable. The language and imagery of sexuality is the most graphic and most powerful that the Bible uses to describe the relationship between God and his people—both positively (when we are faithful) and negatively (when we are not).

[RightWhale]

Wall Street Journal article
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120008793352784631.html

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. . .
During the 19th century, Germans pioneered modern scholarship of ancient texts. Their work revolutionized understanding of Christian and Jewish scripture. It also infuriated some of the devout, who resented secular scrutiny of texts believed to contain sacred truths.
. . .

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Seen plenty of this infuriation here on FR and can imagine the rage of the islamics, but it isn’t happening.

[LucyT]

Thank you, NYer.

[Gamecock]

Since you are interested in this topic consider yourself pinged to 36.

[irishtenor]

Can you say AMEN! AMEN.