Great Britain: Organs to be taken without consent (PM Brown favors "presumed consent" )

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | January 12, 2008 | Patrick Hennessy and Laura Donnelly

[Stoat]

Organs to be taken without consent

By Patrick Hennessy and Laura Donnelly
 

Last Updated: 9:21pm GMT 12/01/2008

 

 

Gordon Brown has thrown his weight behind a move to allow hospitals to take organs from dead patients without explicit consent.

• 	There are more than 8,000 patients waiting for an organ donation

  Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, the Prime Minister says that such a facility would save thousands of lives and that he hopes such a system can start this year.
  
  The proposals would mean consent for organ donation after death would be automatically presumed, unless individuals had opted out of the national register or family members objected.
  
  But patients' groups said that they were "totally opposed" to Mr Brown's plan, saying that it would take away patients' rights over their own bodies.
  
  There are more than 8,000 patients waiting for an organ donation and more than 1,000 a year die without receiving the organ that could save their lives.

  The Government will launch an overhaul of the system next week, which will put pressure on doctors and nurses to identify more "potential organ donors" from dying patients. Hospitals will be rated for the number of deceased patients they "convert" into donors and doctors will be expected to identify potential donors earlier and alert donor co-ordinators as patients approach death.

  But Mr Brown, who carries a donor card, has made it clear he backs an even more radical revamp of the system, which would lead to donation by "presumed consent". The approach is modelled on that of Spain, which has the highest proportion of organ donors in the world.

  "A system of this kind seems to have the potential to close the aching gap between the potential benefits of transplant surgery in the UK and the limits imposed by our current system of consent," Mr Brown writes.

  He voted against such a system in 2004 - but sources close to the Prime Minister said last night that the measure proposed then was a much harder version of his latest plan, without families having the final say.

  Patients' groups said that they were appalled by Mr Brown's intervention. "They call it presumed consent, but it is no consent at all," said Joyce Robin, from the watchdog Patient Concern. "They are relying on inertia and ignorance to get the results that they want." She said that the

  Government had made little effort to get people to register to give up organs after death. "Where is the big media campaign, where are the leaflets? Why, when I go to see my GP, doesn't he ask me about organ donation? These are the things they should be doing - not taking away our right to decide what happens to our bodies."

  Katherine Murphy, of the Patients Association charity, agreed. "We don't think a private decision, which is a matter of individual conscience, should be taken by the state. If people want to give the gift of life, that is their right, but it must be something that is a voluntary matter. "

  While polls show 90 per cent of Britons are in favour of organ donation, 40 per cent of relatives refuse consent for the organs of their relatives to be donated, a figure which rises to 75 per cent among black and ethnic minorities. To solve this, the organ taskforce plans measures to boost donation, including putting pressure on doctors to identify patients as potential donors before they have died.

  The taskforce report - to be released on Tuesday - calls for a senior doctor to be appointed in every hospital as a "champion" of donation, along with a lay person to spread the message about the importance of donation locally.

  The force, which is to publish a report on "presumed consent" this summer, hopes its 14 recommendations will lead to 50 per cent more donations in five years.

  It admits to a possible "conflict of interest" between medical staff, trying to save lives and those keen to ensure every possible organ is harvested. Dr Kevin Gunning, an intensive care consultant at Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, and a member of the UK Transplant's advisory group, said the measures could put doctors and relatives under pressure. "If, as a doctor you have turned your thoughts to your patient being a donor when they are still living, that is a real conflict."

  Dr Bruce Taylor, of the Intensive Care Society warned that early indicators of death were not reliable. "The only way to be sure is to do all the tests which show brain stem death; anything in advance of that is only a prediction."

  But Chris Rudge, of UK Transplant, the authority in charge of organ donation and transplant, insisted patients would not be considered as donors at any point where survival was possible.

[Stoat]

It is my impression that UK doctors would have strong government support if they disregarded "opt outs" or feigned ignorance or a breakdown in the info from a patient's database that contained the opt out.

You make compelling points.  I would suggest that the proposed changes already have the mechanisms within them to accelerate such a breakdown, such as the fact that hospitals will be 'rated' as to their 'donated' organ output.  Surely no hospital administrator wants to be on the bottom of the national ratings list for organ donations?  Having a 'database error'  toward the end of every fiscal cycle would insure a steady stream of organs......

[Winniesboy]

How scary is it that they would rather go this route instead of having a public information campaign on being a donor

In fact there have been such campaigns for many years, with a well-tried system of donor cards, bracelets etc. It's because those exisiting opt-in systems don't supply enough organs that alternatives are now proposed.

[ThanhPhero]

Actually the criteria will more likely relate to what condition your organs are judged to be in and how determined are your relatives and/or associates to have you back.

[Stoat]

Actually the criteria will more likely relate to what condition your organs are judged to be in and how determined are your relatives and/or associates to have you back.

Sorry, I guess that in my attempt at tongue-in-cheek humor, my tongue was too far in my cheek.  I was attempting to illustrate an absurd situation by an absurdity, and I apologize for not making that more clear.

Of course, as things stand now, you're entirely correct.

[socialismisinsidious]

Yes but your are forgetting where those costs will also lead US...to innovations and new ideas/technology. The costs will help drive the need for new concepts: one of which is non-embryonic stem cell research. They hope to one day implant new organs via cells rather than need a donor--the high costs (and lack of organs) is one of the driving forces behind that movement.

Stopping medicine in its tracks (as in quitting or as socialized medicine does) b/c of costs is the worst thing that one can do b/c of all the advances that would be lost.

In any field think of all the things we would not have if technology had been stopped/tossed out b/c the initial costs were prohibitive.....

[gracesdad]

So we can definitely mark you down as part of the pro-death crowd when it comes to people who need organ transplants?

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Where is this article? I’d like to read it?

[Stoat]

Where is this article? I’d like to read it?

Here you go.  I found it right away by searching the Daily Mail site with the keywords "Large Family Christmas".

Two turkeys, 34lb of potatoes and a gallon of custard - Christmas dinner for the family with 12 children the Daily Mail

Where is this article? I’d like to read it?

[CJ Wolf]

The brits aren't gonna take this lying down.

The back says some pretty funny stuff. But you gotta click on it to see it, beware of colour british humour with foul language.

http://www.jimcromwell.com/landfill/do%20not%20card%20back.jpg

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Much obliged.

Some of the comments are disheartening. A few folks alleging to be from Guernsey are alleging that there was some benefits fraud going about.

[Stoat]

The brits aren't gonna take this lying down.

Let's hope not.  Thanks for the funny post  :-)

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

A little bit more every year. The end goal of all this is COMPLETE control of every aspect of life by a corrupt government.

[Stoat]

Much obliged.
 

You're quite welcome.  :-)

Some of the comments are disheartening. A few folks alleging to be from Guernsey are alleging that there was some benefits fraud going about.

Indeed.  I didn't recall those posts from when I had read the article last year, either because I had stopped reading after the first few "Haven't they heard of condoms?" and "Not very environmentally conscious, are they?" posts in disgust or because they perhaps had not yet been posted at that time.

A very sad time for the children in particular, if true.  It's strange about the Comments at the Daily Mail in general....dozens of attempts at submitting comments there have served to make me believe that they either don't post comments from stoats as policy or they won't post anything that is even slightly politically incorrect.  Of course all of my comments were politically incorrect, but some were only marginally so and all were of course completely true and lacking any foul language despite the fact that the matter at hand would likely have benefited from it..

And yet they post multiple comments alleging specific, serious criminal acts against private individuals without any links to documentation supporting the claims.  Perhaps it strikes me as odd only because I'm a Yank, and over here people tend to get sued over stuff like that....

Much obliged.
 

You're quite welcome.  :-)

Some of the comments are disheartening. A few folks alleging to be from Guernsey are alleging that there was some benefits fraud going about.

[steveyp]

Just a short leap for them to begin nosing around into their right to ensure healthy organs from us and therefore we should avoid Cheetos and Budweiser or clotted cream and Newcastle in the Brits case.

[Stoat]

A little bit more every year. The end goal of all this is COMPLETE control of every aspect of life by a corrupt government.

All true of course.  And with the encroachment of Socialism, the point at which 'corruption' is identified moves steadily out of sight until the word is no longer invoked at all.  Corruption is such a judgmental, moralistic term after all, and morals are suggestive of a religious underpinning of things.  Since religion (Judeo /Christianity, at least) has no place under The Warm Glow Of The Socialist Miracle, then we need to stop talking about corruption as well.  It makes people feel bad and it's the way we are going to be doing things around here from now on, after all.

I wish that the boffins would hurry up and finish developing a Star Trek 'transporter', because there are times when I really would like to be beamed out of here.

Where to?  Not sure.  Places like Montana, Texas and a few others sound awfully nice.

"sigh"

 

[Stoat]

Just a short leap for them to begin nosing around into their right to ensure healthy organs from us and therefore we should avoid Cheetos and Budweiser or clotted cream and Newcastle in the Brits case.

Sadly, it appears that the leap has already been made. 

U.K.'Too Fat' Patients Denied NHS Operations (smokers too; 6M people affected)

The NHS wins when its patients die (U.K. National Health Service)

Because banning Cheetos outright would cause instant rioting in the streets, depriving people of treatments and benefits pertaining to their consumption accomplishes the same goal as an outright ban on the causative agent.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

BTW, I do NOT support forcing anybody to donate organs.

One of the wonderful industries springing up because organ transplants are now considered to be a human right by idiots like you is the Medical Adoption industry.

I'm sure you whole-heartedly approve.

Of course, the Peoples Republic of China is also doing its part to make sure that there are plenty of organs available, should you need one and have the money.

China's mobile death fleet

[redstateconfidential]

But their infidel organs will reside nicely inside their Islamic Masters ! England is gone, in the next war the Islamic majority will use their weapons against us.

[gracesdad]

“by idiots like you”

Gosh, I like you, too.

I wish it weren’t so, but my daughter donated four organs. One woman was able to have a child because of our daughter’s pancreas. Don’t know about the others.