Stop it!
Can't you see yer killing me here?
My guts are falling out from laughing!
Posted on 01/08/2008 4:09:13 PM PST by tantiboh
Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.
The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.
...
THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.
...
ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."
...
Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.
...
The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.
Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
1 John 4:4 Ye -- of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.
When is God in your human spirit?... According to Mormonism 'after all that you can do.' Are you unable to see your religion teaches the very opposite of what the passage you allude to plainly states?
My, my, my, pretty testy now aren't we. This, BTW, is what is correctly referred to as an "attack", no documentation, no proof, only innuendo. When in doubt, hurl invectives. Is that the mormon way? BTW, I did give a testimony in earlier posts (musta slipped you memory). I've accepted Jesus as my personal Savior and attest to the truth of the Bible and of historic orthodox Christianity. There, if subjective "testimonies" are the only proof you seek then here is sufficient proof. So my experience cancels out your experience, now lets look at the objective evidence.
U Said: Unless the object of one's faith is false to begin with.
What a sad small world you inhabit if this is a valid argument to you.
Laid forth as a valid option, has nothing to do with my world, only your's apparently.
So anyone who tries to usurp God's place (judgement) is a son of perdition, interesting.
Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7
"that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith."
Looks like Smitty is usurping God's place.
Then so do the Trinitarians wiht their changed Gospel condemned by Paul, sitting in judgement upon us as if they are God, wait ahat did 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 say again?
Paul believed in and taught Trinitarian concept of God.
Uhhhh, hello, look at the names please, they promulgated the doctrine as prophets and apostles. Furthermore, the general authorities AS A DOCTRINAL DEFINING BODY has not repudiated these teachings. If they have, you seem unable to provide documentation to the same.
Your argument that We teach that God had sex with Mary boils down to "you believe that God has all the Equipment". One word, Lame!
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants, sec. 130:22).
Those are the words from your standard works. Where did they get the body? As one time humans. Do gods suddenly become neutered upon godhood? Furthermore, it is mormon doctrine that the gods procreate spirit children and have physical, tangible bodies, how else would this happen, through simply smiling at each other :)
Drag that worn out arguement that has already been explained away. Chiasmus was understood before Smith's time, it is a pattern found in other languages and cultures and infact Smith's journals and the D&C contain Chiasmus. That means it is probably nothing more than his writing style. IF we had the bom plates, the could be referenced - but alas, you have to resort again to simple inuendo inspite of alternative explainations.
He certified it as Egyptian before he was told it was being translated by a prophet of God.
That is not what Anthon formally put down in writing. But that as it may, modern research suggests that, given the state of knowledge of Egyptian in 1828, Anthon's views would have been little more than opinion and not a basis of fact, unless you can provide the certificate or trust the word of an individual branded as a liar by Smith.
Please explain the Colophon (Joseph did not know what a Colophon was) that the Book of Mormon starts with: First Nephi 1:1-3
Is Joey around to ask? There is nothing to indicate that he didn't know either.
I found that MGH does not like the source of his doctrine examined.
I provided passages from the Catholic Encyclopedia that shows that there was a change in the teachings of the Apostolic Christian Church and what was taught by Tertullian who is the first to spell out what they teach now,
I asked: When and how did this change take place?
It brought on one of his long invective answers, but he never answered the question and did not deny that it changed.
Welcome to the club.
Luke: 1
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The LDS Church simply does not teach that God the Father had sex with Mary. I think the generally accepted belief is that God the Father just created Christ as an embryo in Marys womb using part of himself and Mary, but I have nothing to back that up.
The essence of Christ when he was here on earth was that he was God and Mortal at the same time. Because he was mortal he could die and because he was God he had power over life and death. His sacrifice (death) redeemed all mankind from death. His suffering in the Garden of Gesethemame gave the gift of atonement to all who would take it.
It is a mystery to me : )
I never see you attacking Creationism, why not? What about Mormonism causes so much hatred and passion in you?
Spaulding knew well what a Colophon was. He was an educated man, well versed in the bible as well as both the Greek and Hebrew language. At least Joe plagarized from a man with education he, Joe, would never undertake. And why should Joe Smith do the work to obtain an education, he had a seer stone, a peepstone, a divination rock! And his plagarism and scam netted him lots of sexual consorts, too! The guy had it made, for a while, at least by worldly standards. But eternity is a very long time and Joe’s place with the father of lies will not be a fun trip don’tchaknow.
You don’t like the answers I gave you or the meaning of the verse in John’s Gospel which states the Trinity openly, so you just bear false witness. How appropriate in defending Mormonism.
Our gender challenged Elsie (Elton) doesn't even know if it is male or female. I wouldn't expect much in the way of logic or reason from it.
Elsie has intimated that it pretends to be a female to elicit sympathy. Born agains will use any ruse to further their cause.
I posted a passage from the Catholic Encyclopedia from an analysis of the development of the doctrine as you believe it and I did not see anything that implied anything other than it was a changing doctrine.
The source I posted says that Tertullian was the first to write the doctrine as in his treatise on the Trinity "Adversus Praxean", which is still the source used today.
You posted a rant where you said the word Trinity had been used earlier by Theophilis, but when I looked at his biography, it says that he used the word but was not using it to describe persons, and so was not a source for the Trinity.
You posted another rant accusing me of mischaracterizing your answers.
That still does not answer the question of how and why the doctrine changed.
You very well we ain't talkin' 'bout no birthin'; but IMPREGNATIN'!!
No logic needed when it's a fact.
No, it's not.
Not to worry; the history of your organization is quite convincing.
He then could stop ranting to me.
Before you sign the atheist papers, try reading a book
by Josh McDowel called “More Than A Carpenter”.
JM was an atheist too. The book is a result of his
quest to prove Jesus couldn’t be real.
Sometimes we miss the obvious. After all... having
to explain God is much like having to point out the sun.
Please, please give God another chance. Though you
think you’ve given up on Him, He hasn’t given up on you.
Stop it!
Can't you see yer killing me here?
My guts are falling out from laughing!
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