Posted on 01/08/2008 4:09:13 PM PST by tantiboh
Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.
The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.
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THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.
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ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."
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Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.
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The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.
Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
I should have said a link to a URL that gives a very good answer.
If you go back through this thread, I have posted passages from the links Elsie provided.
The sources are not from Mormon writings.
How about you answer some questions for a while.
My questions are not trick questions either.
I just think it should be a two way street.
Let us pick this up tomorrow, if you’re willing.
HD:Yeah, we don't believe that stuff either.
Isn't it a mormon belief that you will evolve into Gods and have planets you rule over? IOW, you will be equal to GOD.
G’Night John boy!
Is your argument "hey, that guys doing it too"?
Does that make what they profess true?
If you will read our Articles of Faith, they are a good introduction to our beliefs. They can be found on the lds.org web site, or I could email a copy to you through private email.
1)Who is the Jesus that you worship?
This can best expressed through our first article of faith.
We believe in God the Eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy ghost.
It can further be expressed as: He is the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament.
2) Is he both true God and true Man?
He is the only Begotten Son of The Father in the flesh.
3) Was he the real incarnation of God?
He came to earth as a mortal man to fulfiller the will of the Father.
4) Was Christ made incarnate in the form of Jesus of Nazareth, and was he preexistent?
Jesus Christ was with The Father before this earth was created. He is the creator of this earth. His mission was to fulfill the plan of the Father.
5) Did Jesus Christ, being God incarnate whilst also being a man, fully atone for the sins of mankind in his sacrifice upon the cross? and was it validated by his resurrection and ascension?
Part of his mission was to come to this earth and atone for the sins of all who would repent and follow him.
He did that through his suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving his life by being Crucified.
Through his resurrection all mankind will be resurected. It is his gift to us. I can also add my own beliefs.: He is my personal Savior. He promised great blessings to those who will take on his name and follow him. That means to obey his commandments so we will be worthy to return to the Father.
We recognize that He was the only sinless person who lived on the earth. It is through the process of repentance that we take advantage of his gift of eternal life.
After all that we can do, His Grace is sufficient for us to be able to return to the father.
I haven't used a bunch of references to scriptures, as I took it that you wanted my beliefs.
I can provide scriptural references to clarify this if you desire.
No, nor did I suggest that it does. I merely find that since their faith is a peaceful one, and their values decent ones that dovetail nicely with the best American traditions, their particular theology is irrelevant to me. This is my personal opinion, and I won’t argue faith...it’s pointless to do so.
No, nor did I suggest that it does. I merely find that since their faith is a peaceful one, and their values decent ones that dovetail nicely with the best American traditions, their particular theology is irrelevant to me. This is my personal opinion, and I won’t argue faith...it’s pointless to do so.
I finished posting my answers to the questions you posed.
I took it as a serious inquery.
Usually there will be some who will mock what I answered.
Nevertheless, that is my beliefs.
AP:No, nor did I suggest that it does. I merely find that since their faith is a peaceful one, and their values decent ones that dovetail nicely with the best American traditions, their particular theology is irrelevant to me.
If a candidate professes a sincere faith in his church's teachings it can't hurt to understand what he believes.
What we profess is true not because of what we believe or profess, or even what we do.
It is true because it is true despite us not living perfect lives. We do not profess to be perfect, only that we are attempting to follow Christ when He bids us follow.
Be warned, though, that if one attempts to study Scripture without faith in Him through Christ alone, the very real alive Christ of Scripture, especially if one has been associated with the cults who refuse to accept the humanity and divinity of Jesus Christ, then they leave themselves exposed to demonic influence and possibly possession of their thinking processes.
Until you suffer the first death, though, it is still possible to accept Christ alone through faith alone.
It isn't an issue of rationalism, it's an issue of faith alone through Christ alone.
I agree with your political concerns about Romney—he’s definitely nothing but a FAKE conservative... but it’s not bigotry to have religious concerns stronger than political ones.
I’m more than happy to admit that I find the religious prospect of the LDS cult being given unprecedented world-wide legitimacy, status, and prestige outweighs my concern of the political prospect even of a Democrat regime... Like in my life, my RELIGIOUS concerns are deeper than my POLITICAL concerns.
The Republican party was founded in the 1850s out of the moral concerns on two things: 1) Abolition of slavery 2) Abhorrence to Mormon polygamy.
It would be a great irony to elect a president descendant and in agreement with those who preached and practiced #2.
You can count that there are MILLIONS of evangelicals just like me....call it bigotry or whatever you want, I don’t care, but I will not support or vote for a prominent member of a pernicious anti-Christian cult.
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Common sense says you might want to find a different apologists to be common with.
Good questions. I will answer your questions clearly in a moment. First, allow me to build a foundation upon which we may build.
The LDS Church rejects the Doctrine of the Trinity. We do not believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one in substance. We believe that they are three separate beings, each possessing attributes of divinity, meaning that each possesses the power and authority of God. We do believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one of purpose, power, and authority.
We worship only God the Father, though, as our God, and Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
God the Father and Jesus Christ each have a physical body of flesh and bone, albeit perfected and immortal. The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, as is appropriate to his role within the Godhead.
~”1)Who is the Jesus that you worship?”~
Jesus of Nazareth. Allow me to be most specific as to Who I mean: The Son of God, the Only Begotten, born via the miraculous virgin birth by Mary, wife of Joseph. He was born in Bethlehem and lived as a Jew. He performed the Atonement and was crucified; He suffered for our sins so that we could, through His Grace, be saved from them.
~”2) Is he both true God and true Man?”~
Yes. He inherited the attributes of divinity from God the Father, of whom He was begotten, and the attributes of mortality from his mother, Mary. He was both God and Man.
~”3) Was he the real incarnation of God?”~
No. He is an individual distinct from God the Father.
~”4) Was Christ made incarnate in the form of Jesus of Nazareth, and was he preexistent?”~
Yes to both.
~”5) Did Jesus Christ, being God incarnate whilst also being a man, fully atone for the sins of mankind in his sacrifice upon the cross? and was it validated by his resurrection and ascension?”~
Yes to both. I do not think His sacrifice required validation by the resurrection and ascension, but this is a semantical disagreement. Both occurred as described in the Bible.
~”You seem to be a conciliatory type...”~
Thank you.
~”...and I think your statement could help focus the dialogue towards what you personally believe, compared and contrasted with the teachings of Joseph Smith, the LDS Church, and the canon of Scripture.”~
My beliefs regarding the Godhood are precisely in line with the teachings of Joseph Smith, the LDS Church, and the canon of Scripture as understood by us.
We see in this exchange that the only point in which the LDS Church disagrees with mainstream Christianity in regards to the Trinity is in the nature of God. Otherwise, our beliefs on the matter are the same.
~”After all, we’re talking about what Mormons believe, aren’t we?”~
Indeed. It’s a frustrating thing to me that there are those who would insist on telling me what I believe. I appreciate that you have chosen to ask instead.
~”How would lend legitimacy to his faith anyway? Did Nixon’s crimes in office deligitimize his Quaker faith?”~
I agree with you. There are those, however, who think that any positive exposure to Mormonism, as would evidently be the case were there to be a Mormon president, would spread knowledge of Mormonism far and wide; that many more people would be “duped” into believing it and therefore lose their souls. If the American President, goes their reasoning, is a Mormon, then the effect is to bring Mormonism into the mainstream of world religion. They do not enjoy this prospect.
People such as americanophile are far, far more numerous than the aggressors we have seen here; the difference is that the aggressors are much louder.
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