Colorado gunman scared co-workers 5 years ago, one says

CNN ^ | 10DEC07 | CNN

[redgolum]

Nuts or possessed.

[PAR35]

How often do you see news coverage which says, "This criminal was a public school student.”

It's a common genre of comment on FR. Perhaps the HS crowd will be a bit slower to gloat next time.

[PAR35]

Because this has nothing to do with home schooling.

Perhaps you all would do well to remember that next time a 'publik skul' kid goes nuts.

[twntaipan]

You will note that I point to his age. If he had been a 15 year old homeschooled kid, I would see it pertinent.

When a 15 year old “publik skul” kid goes off in school, it is equally pertinent.

My point is that if this had been a 24 year old public school grad (or drop out), the MSM would not mention his education background. It isn’t pertinent to this case...it shows their bias.

[org.whodat]

There still is involuntary commitment isn’t there.

[kalee]

I don’t think the fact this young man was homeschooled created his behavior anymore than the public school the Columbine shooters’ attended created their behavior. Obviously all these kids had serious problems that were not identified by anyone either in or out of their respective school situations.

As I also pointed out on another thread, in my county homeschooling has become the “dumping ground” for students that the public schools begin to find problematic, either in terms of test scores or behavior. As a leader in the local and state homeschool community I have noticed a marked increase in calls from parents to whom the public school has “suggested” homeschool might be a better option for their child.

[the808bass]

Please don’t paint us all with the same brush.

I can't tell you how many times I've been painted with "the same brush" because my child is in public school. And if they didn't include the information that this kid was homeschooled, we'd have 20 people on this thread telling us it was the public school's fault and we all need to homeschool to keep our kids from turning out like this.

[the808bass]

I don’t know enough about the situation yet.

I have met some of those people as well. It appears from the surface that you might be right here. The youngest was sent to a Christian school, I believe.

[the808bass]

I’ll put my homeschooled, full college scholorship, graduated with highest honors, in less than three years, who have never given their parents one minutes worry that they would be in any kind of trouble up against any kid in any government school in the nation.

Uh...good. That means you're their parent. I'm pretty sure most parents would put their kid "up against any kid."

[the808bass]

boy bands like Linkin Park, for one. ...downright satanic.

My guess is that it wasn’t that the song was by Linkin Park, but what the song said. A little predictable, if you ask me...

“Numb”

I’m tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless lost under the surface
Don’t know what you’re expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)

[Chorus]
I’ve become so numb I can’t feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I’m becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

Can’t you see that you’re smothering me
Holding too tightly afraid to lose control
Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
And every second I waste is more than I can take

[Chorus]
I’ve become so numb I can’t feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I’m becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me with someone disappointed in you

It was his anthem.

[UCANSEE2]

“any article say where he got his guns or the grenades from? just curious.”

No. The MSM is too busy trying to find out where Jeanne Assam got her guns.

[Colofornian]

I’ve noticed that the home school crowd has been fairly quiet on these threads.

Whatever you might be implying doesn't even make sense from a logical comparison...the two girls shot were apparently home schooled as well...so would you be implying that was the reason they were victimized?

Violent crime happens. Domestic violent crime happens. We don't go around blaming victims for their lifestyle, do we? Whose at fault in a fatal stalker scenario when the stalker is the ex-husband? Would you be implying the family is at fault because the ex-husband came out of that family? Isn't the "ex" factor the key word?

This was a 24-year-old man who apparently "hated Christians." MSNBC and CBS both had that as their online headlines last night. These were criminal acts of hatred, not an internal love fued.

[mountainbunny]

There still is involuntary commitment isn’t there.

In most cases, involuntary commitment lasts for 72 hours or so, then you have the right to either be released or to have a lawyer and go before a judge to plead your case as to why you should be released. For them to keep you, they have to show you are an imminent danger to yourself or others and cannot survive minimally on your own.

The kind of commitment to long term care where you are in the hospital indefinitely is rare and hard to come by. And rightfully so, because it has been abused in the past. If they determine that you are a danger to yourself and cannot care for yourself in a minimal way, they can keep you, but as soon as you are stable enough to no longer meet those requirements for keeping you, they have to let you go.

And while proper treatment can take weeks or months; getting you stable may only take a few days, so many people are kept for the 72 hours, they are deemed "not an immediate threat" and are released. They really aren't getting any long-term treatment. They are seriously ill, but don't know they are sick, so they will refuse to be treated voluntarily.

The previous abuses, where people were sometimes locked up for years with no treatment or for dodgy reasons (political reasons, monetary gain or because the person was a liability, an embarrassment, or because it was profitable to keep them) have led to court decisions that (unfortunately) allow many people to slip through the cracks today and refuse treatment that could really help. When you add to that the fact that many psychiatric medicines take weeks to kick in, don't work for every patient with the same diagnosis, sometimes have harsh side effects and can really be hard on the body, you can see why it is difficult to get some patients to take anything.

And that's the problem, because if a patient is seeing things and hearing voices, there is little chance that they will choose to get better on their own and at the same time, they are probably wary of any treatment. But as long as they can care for themselves in a minimal way and don't voice a plan to harm themselves or others, its hard to help them.

I don't know what the answers are to all this. I can only tell you that from what I have seen, the people involved usually seem to try to do the best they can, but their hands are often tied.

[Route797]

Homeschooling is wonderful. The problem comes from homeschooling advocates who use every opportunity to smear “government schools” and anybody and everybody involved with them.

[Manly Warrior]

What?

I supose if a person does something wrong it is based on where they went to school and not thier own personal choices of behavior? Shame on you.

I homeschooled three and one is an AF officer, one is finishing a degree in Russian and the youngest is working her way to a teaching degree, none have ever been in trouble with the law, all vote, pay taxes, know how to shoot and own firearms and ......

I guess all people that went to Berkely in the 60s are freaks too ?

If I am coming across rather peeved, I am. Millions of homeschooled citizens contribute to our society in great ways every day, no comment required!

Since this fruit loop used a gun, I guess all of us who do as well are criminals waiting to happen? You logic (lack thereof) astounds me! You sound like, like a LIBERALDEMOCRAT!

[PAR35]

Thanks for serving as an example.

[PAR35]

Homeschooling is wonderful. The problem comes from homeschooling advocates who use every opportunity to smear “government schools” and anybody and everybody involved with them.

Amen.

Some of them don't like their hypocrisy being exposed. The rants have begun.

[PAR35]

Whatever you might be implying doesn't even make sense from a logical comparison

Sure it does. As I said above, perhaps the home schooling crowd will be a bit slower to gloat next time.

Anytime there is an incident involving a public school kid, you can count on an element of the home school crowd gleefully posting away.

[Dumb_Ox]

I think we're led by the media to be too quick to cram evil into the "crazy" category. Roommate recalls bizarre times:

"In the beginning he was just a nice quiet normal kid," Werner said.

Then Murray began to display extreme "mood swings" — from biting sarcasm to angering other guys in the 18-man dorm by spreading rumors of homosexual behavior in the shower and violating rules against smoking or romantic relationships during the program.

There were other troubling signs.

Murray would toss and turn in his bunk at night, growling and making slow swallowing sounds, Murray said. He also would talk to himself in the halting, high-pitched speech of "Smeagol," the Hobbit-like character in the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy popular at the time.

One night Werner was awakened by Murray's chattering and complained: "Hey, Matt can you just stop that. What are you doing?

"He just turned and said, 'Dude, I'm just talking to my voices,'" Werner recalled.

"Richard ... you don't have to worry," Murray reassured him. "You're a nice guy. The voices like you."

Like other students concerned about the teen's behavior, Werner said: "We didn't know if he was being serious about it or he was just messing with everybody's head."

I knew these kinds of kids in high school. They wanted people to think they were crazy because then they could get away with their wickedness. Then they'd pretend the hostile response their behavior provoked was completely unfounded, so they could self-pityingly play the victim.

[Colofornian]

Sure it does. As I said above, perhaps the home schooling crowd will be a bit slower to gloat next time. Anytime there is an incident involving a public school kid, you can count on an element of the home school crowd gleefully posting away.

Talk about insensitive...what? are you trying to politicitize on this tragic event? politicizing whatever educational interaction occurs between a parent & a child? (as if public & private kids don't learn from their parents @ home as well--a seeming assumption of yours)...

Haven't you actually read media reports that said that this man (not a kid) was released from missionary training because of his health? Haven't you considered that this might be a veiled reference to mental health?

And speaking on behalf of parents who may have such children that they dearly love & serve & educate, haven't you considered that a parent may have alternative reasons for home-schooling a child other than a belief that home schooling trumps all other options?

Can't you comprehend the possibility that if you are a parent of a child with a mental health issue, that the home environment might be the best environment for some minors in that situation?

So you're telling me that just because some minors who may have mental health issues might do best in a home educational environment, that you're going to try to politicize this as some kind of dig against all home schoolers everywhere?