Posted on 12/08/2007 4:08:01 PM PST by Zakeet
FRESNO, California (Reuters) - An entire California diocese of the U.S. Episcopal Church voted to secede on Saturday in a historic split after years of disagreement over the church's expanding support for gay and women's rights.
Clergy and lay representatives of the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin, based in Fresno in central California, voted to leave the church, which has been in turmoil since 2003 when U.S. Episcopalians consecrated their first openly gay bishop.
"We've seen a miracle here today," Bishop John-David Schofield said after the vote. "We are already outside the jurisdiction of the Episcopal Church."
The head of the U.S. Episcopal Church, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, said the church had received word of the decision "with sadness."
"We deeply regret their unwillingness or inability to live within the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness," she said in a statement.
There are about 2.4 million members of the Episcopal Church, the U.S. branch of the 77-million-member global Anglican Communion, as the worldwide church is called.
Delegates voted 173-22 for secession, far more than the two-thirds majority needed.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
I’m in Plano so Arlington is quite a way. Christ Church in Plano has already broken with ECUSA so there is a good possibility I will try there. One of the reasons I’m hesitating is because my son is being married in a few months and I don’t want to do anything to upset him or my future DIL. Time enough after the wedding to lay this other news on him. He isn’t having the struggle I am. I suspect because he has different social views than I do, being younger and more liberal - socially, not politically, thank goodness. He’s still a staunch conservative politically.
Thanks for the information. This sounds a lot like what I’ve been doing.
I guess it really depends on whether you are a "low church" or a "high church" Episcopalian. St. Mary the Virgin will be very high . . . a long time ago we had an ECUSA rector who came to GA from CC Plano, and he was pretty low when he arrived (he was much higher by the time he left). CC Plano is more evangelical, which may mean "low", or it may not. Depends. You'll have to go and see.
As for our family, we were so high our noses bled . . . as my dad says, "up in the rafters with the bats." If there were an Anglican Use rite church here, we would definitely attend now and then. We love our home parish though, and I don't think we'd change.
The parish I belong to is VERY high, very rich, and very liberal. Actually I prefer the high church because I enjoy all the ritual. I’ve never attended a low church. I have heard that CC is very conservative. I don’t know why I keep dithering around. I should just go and see for myself. I’d hate to miss all the Christmas masses and I know my son will wonder why I’m not there too.
Huh?
Under Canon 844, it is possible for those who ask for it, are 'properly disposed', and who are unable to reach a minister of their own faith, to receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church. Our rector (who used to be the Vicar General) opined that we fell within this Canon because (1) we were 'high church' and thus believed in the Real Presence and the validity of priestly orders; (2) we couldn't access a minister of our own church because they had all gone stark raving mad; (3) the archbishop of Atlanta had already cleared another family of "high church" Episcopalians to receive in a similar situation (well before 2003 GC, but they had moved to a remote location in the N.GA mountains where no Episcopal Church was available within several hours' drive); (4) I specifically asked if there was any way we could 'receive the consolation of the Sacrament' while in OCIA/RCIA. As it turned out, we never went through instruction, because after meeting for a couple of hours with the rector it was clear that the only theological points we disagreed on were the validity of Anglican Orders and the supremacy of the Pope. And we were happy to concede those points, seeing as how the Anglicans had made a mess of it and Adult Leadership was clearly indicated . . . . < g >
So you might inquire of the rector where you are attending classes if this is a possibility. That would certainly tide you over until after the wedding, when you wouldn't run the risk of upsetting the kids.
Again, it depends on how 'high' an Episcopalian you are. In talking with my daughter, she has said she didn't notice much change because we already said the Rosary, had a crucifix and saints' pictures in the house, had incense and sang chant in church, etc. But somebody coming from a 'low church' parish might have a lot more difficulty than we did.
Mr. CGG and I left the liberal ELCA 14 years ago for the LCMS. We’ve been rewarded over and over again. I grieve for my lost church. It was the church of my grandparents. That church has gone the way of the Episcopal church.
Seriously, check out a Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. We did and couldn’t be happier.
Mrs. Lucky and I took the same walk about 30 years ago.
Hey Whacko; it goes like this: forgive the sinner, not the sin.
We found that we could manage to get motivated by 'visiting around' on Sundays. But our new parish was only the second one we tried, and it 'took'. We never made it over to the Latin Mass parish.
Is there a Latin Mass or Extraordinary Rite parish near you? If you like 'high', that is likely to be far more to your taste than some Ordinary Rite Catholic parishes, which can be very modern and decidedly UN-ritualistic. Some folks threw out the baby with the bathwater.
We are fortunate that our parish, although there is no Extraordinary Rite Mass, is extremely reverent and highly orthodox. We do chant the Ordinary of the Mass (the parts that don't change - Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei, etc.) in Latin on First Sundays. The music is excellent too (even by Episcopalian high church standards -- I'm still singing a lot of the same music I sang down the road, Tallis, Byrd, Farrant, Batten, etc., plus we get Palestrina and Victoria, too.)
Just do it. Write it on your calendar and go. You don't want to miss Christmas, even in a Low Church parish that should be a big deal.
Thank you for the clarification. Yes, I think that is what most who leave the Episcopal Church are trying to do--go back to the roots of Anglicanism (excepting of course those who go on to other denominations.) But perhaps we have a difference of terms. I don't see one Anglican Church but rather a communion of independent, self-ruling churches. The Archbishop of Canterbury has never been an "Anglican Pope" and never will be. The Church of England is the mother church, but exists now as one among many.
What has kept the Anglican Communion together is a common approach to scripture and the role of the church, and with enough "comprehensiveness" to accommodate low, broad and high-church. But what has taken place in the Episcopal Church over the past 40 years is unprecedented. The divisions within the Anglican Communion are so deep now, that I think that an official break will be recognized over the next few years.
At any rate, I am glad to see the Diocese of San Joachin leave the Episcopal Church. This sends a very clear signal to the rest of the Communion that they will have to take a stand on one side or the other. Talk of comprehensiveness has its limits.
You must have caught on early. The really bad part didn’t come until after 1988 at the last merger. We left in about 92 or 93. Never been sorry for one minute for ourselves. I am very sorry for my old church.
It is so good of you to give me all this information. I had no idea about this possibility for receiving the Sacrament. (I did LOL at your point #2). Yes, my church is very high - all that is missing is a statue of The Blessed Mother. We have vigil lights, holy water, and Stations of the Cross. Our Rector is one of the few who presides over a Tenebrae service on Wednesday of Easter Week. Christmas is a wonderful time in the church as well. That’s partly why I’m so angry. I see a beautiful Church disintegrating from within because it appears being “popular” and “with it” is more important than following the word of Jesus Christ. I’m sick of seeing pda’s in the pews on Sunday mornings, whether they be hetero or homesexual in nature. I’m sick of seeing the disrespect for the ancient teachings of the church. I know it’s only a matter of time before we have blessing (if not outright performance) of same-sex marriage. I don’t want to be there when that happens.
Sorry - didn’t mean to go loony on you there. I’m just so confused.
Go ahead and visit around. And pray for guidance. DO something, because the pain and dislocation and feelings of betrayal can be paralyzing. You have to get moving somehow.
Canon 844 is here. Section 4 is the relevant part.
A lot will depend on your rector's interpretation of that section - how "grave" a situation has to be before reception of the sacraments is allowed. We had had another Episcopalian family pave the way for us, so it was not entirely unheard of when we showed up.
And don't discount the power of prayer. Our specific prayer (we had a prayer huddle in the parking lot of our parish before we entered the building for the first time) was for Christ to show us the way if this was the right parish for us. All I can say is that His response was immediate, overwhelming, highly convincing, and very funny. . . . the minute we walked into the narthex, we started seeing people that we knew, and they all came running up to say 'hi'. One of my husband's fellow Scoutmasters -- a guy I worked with for a federal judge some 20 years ago -- my mother's very oldest friend that we thought was Baptist (she had converted and we didn't know it) -- three friends of my daughter from her high school -- it was just amazing. And we didn't know any of these people attended that parish!
I just kind of rolled my eyes up and whispered, "All right, Lord, thank you. Message received!"
I agree. The Episcopal Church is in trouble and has been for quite some time. IMO, they are the authors of their own demise.
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