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To: CounterCounterCulture
This debate may be the best so far. While some candidates have done well and others not as well, almost all of them looked better than they have in the past. I came away with a more positive impression of the entire field than I have in most of the other debates. The party benefits when all of the candidates look strong in a debate. As always, I'll rate the candidates from top to bottom as I saw the debate.

Fred Thompson - Fred Thompson did well tonight. He not only avoided mistakes but helped himself on most of the questions that he answered. He hurt himself by looking down at first, and I worried that we'd spend the whole debate looking at the top of his bald head, but he made good eye contact after that first answer or two. He showed a good grasp of the issues and a good personality. He didn't look old, frail, or out of place. If I were a Fred Thompson supporter, I'd be very happy right now.

Mitt Romney - Mitt Romney would have tied Fred Thompson for the top spot except for one question that I'll touch later. He stood his ground on every issue and at every point. He forced Rudy Giuliani to back down in their initial confrontations over sanctuary cites. He stood strong against Mike Huckabee on scholarships for illegal aliens. Even when he admitted that he was wrong about abortion in 1994, he came across as a strong, confident leader. He showed is usual good command of the issues and good ability to explain his positions.

Where Mitt Romney hurt himself was on the Confederate battle flag question. I'm sorry that many people see the Confederate battle flag as a sign of racism, but their wrong perceptions don't have to be treated as reality. Many people have said that "merit" is a racist code word. We don't have to tiptoe around their paranoia over merit, and we shouldn't have to tiptoe around the Confederate battle flag. For many of us, the Confederate battle flag represents the courage of young men who marched to war because their home was being invaded. To the extent that they even saw the big issues, they were marching to defend what they believed was a Constitutional right for a state to leave the Union. While the cause of keeping the country united and ending slavery was the just cause, fighting to defend one's home is also just. Those of us who descended from men who fought to defend their homes are proud of their courage and the valiant effort that they gave. Mr. Romney's answer to the question was more sanctimonious and critical than necessary. When he attacks the Confederate battle flag, he is seen as attacking men who were braver and stronger than he is, and he may lose votes in the South because of his answer. Those are votes that he didn't need to lose.

Rudy Giuliani - Rudy Giuliani still has a formidable lead in the national polls, and that lead can't be underestimated. While Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson made him look weak in the discussion of sanctuary cities, he comes into these debates without a huge need to expand his support. He wasn't hurt badly by anything, and every day that passes without him losing much support is a day that brings him closer to the White House.

Duncan Hunter - Duncan Hunter had a generally good debate, but a generally good debate isn't good enough. To use a boxing analogy, he's in the 11th or 12th round of a 15 round championship fight. His opponent isn't strong enough to knock him out, but he's lost too many rounds to win a decision. If he's going to win, he's going to have to land a knockout punch. Every day that passes without him landing that punch is a day that makes him much less likely to win any delegates, much less the nomination. Most of his answers were good. He knows the issues. He has the right positions. His answer on the homosexuals in the military question was weak, but he's clearly a great conservative. He's just not likely to win the nomination.

Mike Huckabee - Mike Huckabee hurt himself early and never fully recovered. A scholarship is a reward, and refusing to give a scholarship is not a punishment. When we refuse to give scholarships to children of illegal aliens, we are not punishing them for their parents' crimes. We are simply refusing to reward them for their parents' crimes. Mr. Huckabee's inability or refusal to see this truth will hurt his candidacy. Beyond that question, he did pretty well, but he's no longer a novelty. On certain questions, he'd slip into his "gentle wisdom" style of speaking, and we all recognize the act. I'm not saying that he's not sincere or that we don't enjoy hearing him speak. He's like Bob Hope singing "Thanks for the memories." We enjoy listening every time, but with the novelty wearing off, the act doesn't make us want to vote for him.

Tom Tancredo - Tom Tancredo is no longer a serious candidate. Duncan Hunter and others have diluted the impact of his immigration message. He doesn't have Duncan Hunter's military experience. I admire the man tremendously, but I see no chance of his campaign getting through January. He has nothing to lose, so he can't do too well or too poorly in the debate.

John McCain - John McCain looked ill tonight. He's a hero, and he's sometimes right on the issues. Other times, he's really wrong on the issues. By appearing old, sickly, and cranky, he lost a chance to sway undecided voters who are his slim hope.

Ron Paul - Ron Paul didn't do as badly tonight as he's done in the past. He's very wrong about a few issues and very right about most issues. Unfortunately, we can't afford to consider someone who is wrong about the issues where he's wrong.

Bill

2,311 posted on 11/28/2007 7:55:22 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: WFTR
Good summary. The folks I watched with pretty much agree.

I have posted here in the past that Hunter doesn't have "it". I have not been able to put my finger on "it" until tonight. My buddies wife, who does not pay any attention to politics until 1 month before the election did not know who Hunter was. The first time he came on she said "he has shifty eyes." All five others agreed with her that that is his problem on TV. Can't get elected in the TV world if TV isn't kind to you. Too bad because I agree with him more than any other candidate. I like your fight analogy.

2,363 posted on 11/28/2007 8:09:10 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Illegal Immigration, a Clear and Present Danger.)
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To: WFTR

I’m with Romney or Thompson. Ron Paul should be going open-looped with Kucinich in a third party.


2,380 posted on 11/28/2007 8:16:08 PM PST by BobS (I><P>)
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To: WFTR
Let me second your analysis.

I'd like a Thompson/Hunter ticket.

I listen to Rudy and I don't hear or see someone who I would trust in the White House. There's something missing and I don't mean just his decidedly non-conservative record. I sense an integrity gap or some disconnect between his ego and his skill set. I'm fearful he'll win the nomination due to the 9/11 aura.

Mitt's a handsome candidate but there's a slickness to him. He appeared quite defensive and again intimated he'd defer to lawyers. On tough questions he fumbles and it feels like he's trying to calculate his words, not speaking from his heart or from a core philosophy.

McCain is done; I even felt bad for him. Ron Paul is a freak show. Tancredo is redundant. Huckabee probably helped himself tonight with some but not with me.

2,406 posted on 11/28/2007 8:24:53 PM PST by newzjunkey (“Market forces” demanded serfs and market forces got them. - Kolokotronis)
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To: WFTR
Here’s my take. This is the first debate I have watched start to finish. I am undecided at this point, and wanted to hear the candidates first-hand. I thought it was a relatively fair debate, considering it was hosted by CNN. There was the ‘gays in the military’ commerical there, but I thought Hunter and McCain addressed it well. I have no problem with the GOP appearing on CNN, after all, if they can’t stand up to Anderson Cooper, how are they going to beat Hillary Clinton? I turned it off after the debate was over, as I don’t need to hear CNN’s leftist spin on what I just heard with my own ears.

I thought Thompson did well. He made good points, especially about addressing spending by attacking the entitlements. Killing Homeland Security won’t do a thing to get the budget under control, and he knows it.

I thought McCain had a good night. He was strong on Iraq, stuck it to Ron Paul, and even defended his anti-torture position well. He was consistent on his anti-spending position. I still don’t think he has a chance because of his pro-illegal stances, but hey, there’s gotta be something said for a guy who sticks with what he believes.

Giuliani had a little tougher night. It seemed like he was on the defensive all night: sanctuary cities, gun control. He did a pretty good job of defending his overall record, although I wanted him to nail that question on ‘restoring America’s standing with the Muslim world’, and for the most part he popped it up. Duncan Hunter, on the other hand, nailed it. He had the line of the night, I thought: “I will never apologize for America” or something like that. I thought Hunter was very, very good tonight. He’s got the right positions, for some reason he’s just not catching on. I guess because most people don’t know who he is.

Romney just seemed there to me, he didn’t do much to impress me. Ron Paul, fiscally correct, foreign policy WRONG. At least he’s not running third party. Huckabee, I really wanted to see him, as he’s getting big time traction. Wasn’t impressed. And then Tancredo, I love him. Where would we be on illegal immigration without him? Probably wouldn’t even be an issue. He nailed Huckabee on that Mars question. Some kid in a basement wants to know how much we’re going to spend to go to Mars, Huckabee says, more, more, more, Tancredo says, ‘see, that’s why we’re in debt.’ Beautiful. For me, I’m definitely leaning towards Thompson, although I thought the whole field for the most part acquitted themselves pretty well. I don’t buy this bit about having poor candidates. I think there are a number of people on that stage that would make good Presidents.

2,490 posted on 11/28/2007 9:02:59 PM PST by Big E
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To: WFTR
Here's my $0.02 take on this debate. Some of the questions chosen were looney and irrelevant. And how can you have a serious presidential debate when the question of homosexual in the military outweighs healthcare. Wait, healthcare wasn't even mentioned at all!

Roody & Romney, I have a feeling that the rest of America saw 2 petty boys bickering back and forth more than statesmen of presidential caliber. That endorsement from Pat Robertson ain't gonna help Roody one iota now. His answer to abortion, to gun control drew some jeers and boos from the crowd. Romney was, well Romney...he's still flip flopping and shot himself in the foot several times. The petty exchanges between the two of them were just unbearable.

Fred - Fred was especially strong on immigration tonight and did well overall, but he failed to excite. I was expecting more from Fred. Fred had an opportunity to take Romney and Huckabee down when Anderson Cooper asked him about the ad that was ran showing Romney pro-abortion speech from several years back and Huckabee agreeing to tax hikes while he was gov. of Arkansas. I was rather surprised that Fred said nothing except "those were their words."

Huckabee - I think that the other candidates allowed Huckabee slide tonight without challenging him much. They took it way too easy on him. Yes, he had to answer the scholarship to illegal immigrants issue, but he answered it in a way that I think Christian/Social conservatives could forgive him. I believe at one point he even got an applause for his answer. I disagree with those who think that he'll be hurt by that issue. Basically, most folks will let it slide and agree that yes, you don't punish kids for the sins of the parents. Huckabee came across as compassionate and did made it clear that the scholarship was meritorious and not a handout. Damn, Fred and the others should have spanked him on taxes and his lack of fiscal responsibilities when they had a chance. For crying out loud, this debate is in Florida, they should have snapped at the chance to call him straight on the Nursing Home Bed Tax he signed to law as gov. of Arkansas. Overall though, I think Huckabee will come across to the public as genuine and caring, esp. with that Jesus comment (though he really is just another slick pass the donation plate and Bible totin' minister).

John McCain - McCain showed himself to be a heavy weight tonight. Smacked RuPaul in place with the "Let us win" Marine comment. McCain came across as a true statesman who's above the pettiness of politics. His answer to the amnesty question, however, did not seem genuine. One can tell my the quiver of his voice and the facial expression that he had been forced to toe the Republican line.

Duncan Hunter - My MAN! Unfortunately, he was once again place way at the far end and not allowed to play in the sand box with the others. He received far fewer questions than the rest of the group. He could've hit the ball out of the park with that question regarding the Chinese toys by stressing his stance on fair trade with China, restoring our industrial base, etc...but he wasn't allotted enough time and was cut off, so he ended up with the "Buy American" line/cliche'. His statement "I will never apologize for America" though drew a loud applause and was his best of the night. The answer was to the question of a Muslim woman who asked how America can restore our image in the Muslim world. His answer came straight from his CPAC speech "America is a Good Nation. He gave a great answer to the gun question and even gave the young man a fatherly lesson on gun safety as well. He didn't bite on the Norquist pledge like the other stooges. And he smacked the Hildabeast planted gay general back in place pretty good. And did it quite respectfully, too. It's clear and evident that Duncan Hunter was, once again, deliberately blacklisted and not given enough questions and airtime. Hunter was never given an opportunity to fully participate in this debate. Same with Tancredo. It's my firm belief that had Hunter been allot enough time like Roody and Mitt were given, he would win the GOP nomination easily.

RuPaul - This guy is nuts! 'nuff said

2,620 posted on 11/28/2007 10:59:03 PM PST by dit_xi (Duncan Hunter: No nose holding necessary come election day. Right on every issue, right every time)
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