A Mormon president? New film shows links between Smith, Romney

Deseret Morning News ^ | Nov. 24, 2007 | Carrie A. Moore

[fallingwater]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695230114,00.html

[Elsie]

What Mormons call theology is vanishingly close to what most people call science fiction.

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Scientology is a newer religion than Mormonism...
	Don't make fun of them, they have a right to have their moronic beliefs respected.

[Elsie]

Lets cut the crap, this is politics not religion.

If someone's religion does NOT affect their politics; then they HAVE no religion!

[Elsie]

When you get eye witness accounts of how Mormons act, it’s hard to call it sensationalism.

You are right!

But it's known as HATE when you post stuff that does NOT agree with us 100%!!!

--MormonDude(On the lookout for HATERS & BIGOTS!)

[Elsie]

Also, with respect to FC, if one wants to call themselves a historian, a first requirement is to recognize the difference between fiction and non-fiction and between antagonistic reporting and objective reporting.

Yup!!

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 
 

[Elsie]

But I have no desire to be dragged into a pissing contest with you over Mormonism. That is not what FR is for.

And yet, like a moth to a flame, you find yourself in these threads all the time!

[Elsie]

“Criticism is particularly objectionable when it is directed toward Church authorities, general or local..."

There is a youtube video, somewhere, showing this guy speaking this!

[trisham]

bump

[Elsie]

....and since you have set yourselves up to be the sole judge of who is correct and who is not in their beliefs

Your lack of knowledge is showing.

[Elsie]

Most folks are ‘unaware’ about a LOT of LDS organization teachings!

[Elsie]

Avoid the TarBaby!

Stay on topic!

[Elsie]

Scurry back into your burrow, mole.

Stay on topic.

[Elsie]

Your engrams need a bit of tweaking I see!

[Elsie]

They claim it's another witness to the Divinity of Christ. Nothing more.

Sorry Son; but you seem not to know your leaders words:

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Oh... in my BoM 1981 edition, on the page with the introduction (4th sheet from front) has these lines...

 

"The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved.

 

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I told the brethern that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

[Elsie]

They were ready to even abandon homes and move on once again, to Mexico if necessary.

 

My my; how wishy washy they became in just a few years!!!

 

 

    OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

 .

.

.

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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[Elsie]

Stay on target and avoid the TarBabies!

[Elsie]

What it means when it appears in literature is the speculation that some person’s crimes might be so great (such as shedding Innocent blood after receiving the witness of the Spirit) that they put themselves beyond the reach of Christ’s atonement.

 

 literature????

 

How disengenuous!

 

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Excerpts from the Sermons of Brigham Young:

September 21, 1856 sermon

"There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world.

"I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them....

"And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.

"It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man."             

(Sermon by Brigham Young published in the Mormon Church's Deseret News, 1856)

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February 8, 1857 sermon

"Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved... and suppose that he is overtaken in a gross fault, that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding of his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, 'shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?'

"All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant....

"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance... if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil... I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them....

"This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it....if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind."

(Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857)

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speculation ??

 

You are either ignorant of these words or you are attempting to misleasd and lie to people.

[Elsie]

Doh!

Pictures are much more fun!!!

[Verginius Rufus]

George Romney’s Presidential race got into the mainstream media, and it was not a secret that he was a Mormon...if I remember correctly, he was born outside the US of American parents who had gone to Mexico, so there were some people who wondered if he counted as a natural born citizen of the US.

[arthurus]

I don’t care for Romney. His Mormonism is the LAST reason for a Christian to withhold support for the man. Mormons are perhaps not Christians exactly in the way most of us think of Christianity but LDS is the most consistent and thorough repository of Christian values in America.

[greyfoxx39]

Your engrams need a bit of tweaking I see!

Actually, I though it was perfect....."L. Ron Hubbard claimed that the source of all problems were 'engrams'".....