Happy trails spaceman!
Posted on 11/12/2007 3:53:44 PM PST by mdittmar
UFOs may be fodder for comedians and science fiction but there was no joking Monday when a group of pilots and officials demanded the US government reopen an investigation into unidentified flying objects.
The 19 former pilots and government officials, who say they have seen UFOs themselves or been involved in probes of strange flying objects, told reporters their questions can no longer be dismissed more than 30 years after the US case was closed.
"We want the US government to stop perpetuating the myth that all UFOs can be explained away in down-to-earth, conventional terms," said Fife Symington, former governor of Arizona and air force pilot who says he saw a UFO himself in 1997.
"Instead our country needs to reopen its official investigation that it shut down in 1969," Symington told a news conference.
Symington read an appeal on behalf of the group of who came to Washington to recount their sightings of UFOs.
"We believe that for reasons of both national security and flight safety, every country should make an effort to identify any object in its airspace," the statement said.
The group included a retired pilot from Air France who said he saw an enormous flying disc during a flight from Nice to London in 1994, an Iranian pilot who tried in vain to fire on a UFO in 1976 and a former US official from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) who claims a probe into a UFO seen over Alaska in 1987 was squelched.
"'Who believes in UFOs?' is the kind of attitude of the FAA all the time," Symington said.
"However, when I asked the CIA person: 'What do you think it was,' he responded 'a UFO.'"
When Symington suggested the government tell Americans about a UFO, the CIA official allegedly told him: "'No way, if we were to tell the American public there are UFOs they would panic.'"
The subject of UFOs came up in a recent debate among presidential candidates, with Democrat Dennis Kucinich saying he saw a UFO.
Skeptics say UFO sightings are merely aircraft or meteors re-entering the Earth's atmosphere.
LOL!
Take your time with this one. My suggestion to you would be quit digging a hole for yourself, but you keep making these odd statements.
You've completely misrepresented what I wrote.
I never claimed that there was no life elsewhere, I claimed that there was no proof that UFOs are of alien origin, whereas there are countless examples of UFOs being misinterpreted natural and man made phenomena and outright hoaxes, from the Gulf Breeze sightings to the Phoenix lights.
No, I cannot debunk every single sighting, just like I can't debunk every single Bigfoot, Yeti, New Jersey Devil, Mothman, Chupacabra, or Leprechaun sighting, nor would I take on such an endeavor when it seems like this is really more an article of faith with you and the like rather than a serious look at the evidence.
Just to recap, so you don't have to ask again:
Simple question. Can I see your "evidence" and proof that life does not exist elsewhere?
Answer. I never claimed as such, only that there was no evidence that UFOs are of alien origin.
Those guys who’ve been getting arrested for taking pictures at Groom Lake wouldn’t think what you’re saying is so funny.
Here again you’re stuck with the earthly notion that it would take huge launches of Saturn5 rockets, that kind of thing. But if we had exo-orbital craft launching from Area 51, they were not rocket-based. So, read the $5 book and come up to speed rather than continuing to argue from ignorance.
You’re jumping the shark. Start putting up some intellectually defensible material rather than relying on the horse laugh and playing to the gallery fallacies.
Thanks Kev...I laughed so hard I hurt my sides....
LOL! Thanks gunner. It's been fun!
:o
Happy trails spaceman!
LOL! Thanks gunner. It's been fun!
Let's make sure my quotation is cited in full context, mmkay.
I never claimed that there was no life elsewhere, only that there is no evidence that UFOs are of alien origin.
Actually this is what you wrote in #210.
__________________________________________________________ Unlike the UFO question, where there is evidence against alien origin, yet none supporting it.
___________________________________________________________
On one hand you say you have evidence *against* alien origin, but never produced your *evidence*, and in the next breath you say "I never claimed that there was no life elsewhere".
You seem to speak in fragmented riddles, never coming out and saying specifically what you mean or believe. Like a suspect caught on video tape, that just refuses to admit or confess he did wrong. LOL!
It's like pulling teeth with you Kev. But you'll find I am quite experienced in this sort of thing, and have a knack for seeing the red flags of inconsistency.
Lets be clear here. Are you saying there might be life elsewhere, but you don't believe they have craft and they are not capable of traveling through interstellar space?
:o
No, you just misread what is right in front of you. This whole thread was about UFOs seen on Earth, not whether life exists light years away.
But you'll find I am quite experienced in this sort of thing, and have a knack for seeing the red flags of inconsistency.
There's absolutely no inconsistency whatsoever. My points have been the same since my first post.
Lets be clear here. Are you saying there might be life elsewhere, but you don't believe they have craft and they are not capable of traveling through interstellar space?
There is no evidence that UFOs are alien spacecraft. None.
As for life elsewhere, I don't know, don't care, and see no evidence that there is. Although since I lack the ability to travel infinite distances with an infinite amount of time, I do not make it a point of contention, especially to those who have a religious or philosophical predisposition to believe in it.
Actually this another inconsistent statement.
You stated earlier that you don't believe in life elsewhere when you stated, "I do not believe in anything for which there is no evidence".
Now you state, " As for life elsewhere, I don't know".
Which is it Kev?
There's absolutely no inconsistency whatsoever.
See above. lol...
There is no evidence that UFOs are alien spacecraft. None.
Yes, and didn't you alleged to have *evidence* to support this?
You stated earlier that you don't believe in life elsewhere when you stated, "I do not believe in anything for which there is no evidence".
Now you state, " As for life elsewhere, I don't know".
Which is it Kev?
No inconsistency whatsoever. Re-read it if you were confused the first time.
Yes, and didn't you alleged to have *evidence* to support this?
Your question shows a fundamental misunderstanding of inductive reasoning. Its like asking me to prove leprechauns don't exist.
Here's an example to make it easier for you:
-All known whales live in the sea.
-No known whales live on land.
-Therefore, all whales live in the sea.
Now, using your brand of reasoning, you would say "prove that all whales live in the sea". That is a fallacious argument as anyone can plainly see.
It is not my job to provide evidence that there are no land whales, it is your job to provide evidence of their existence if you wish to dispute the matter.
Now that totally leaves open the possibility that someday, we might find a whale living on land (Helen Thomas?). However, until then, with no evidence to their existence, we can inductively reason that they do not exist.
So, when a piece of an alien spacecraft drops to the Earth, you can bring it before the world and prove all of us wrong. But until then, we can safely reason that aliens have not visited this planet.
But I wish you good luck in your search.
Forget the whales Kev. You alleged to have *evidence* to support the above.
Lets see it Kev.
There is no evidence that UFOs are alien spacecraft. None.
You alleged to have *evidence*.
Lets see it Kev.
Lets see it Kev.
See what? I've seen no evidence to support alien spacecraft. Why would I need to disprove something unfounded?
Case closed. I win.
Why would I need to disprove something unfounded?
Because YOU said YOU had evidence...
Obviously, YOU don't.
Again the horse laugh. An of course, you won’t read the book, preferring to remain in your ignorance.
You probably also think that a “craft” has to be miles wide with dozens of people in it, but it could just have a very large solar wing. But what difference does it make, talking to you, when your mind is closed and you won’t read the book.
Go ahead and stew away in your ignorance.
On one hand you say you have evidence *against* alien origin, but never produced your *evidence*
***And yet, there’s only one book I ask you to read on the subject and you prefer to fall back on classic fallacies such as the horse laugh.
It’s like pulling teeth with you Kev. But you’ll find I am quite experienced in this sort of thing, and have a knack for seeing the red flags of inconsistency.
***Note that your post was to gunner, but you may have intended me. If you have such a knack of seeing red flags of inconsistency, why are you constantly relying upon classic fallacies?
Lets be clear here. Are you saying there might be life elsewhere, but you don’t believe they have craft and they are not capable of traveling through interstellar space?
***Is that a question of Gunner or Kevmo? I have posted what I think. When you say, “might be”, the classic mathematical definition is that anything less than 10^-50 is impossible. It would be like finding an individual random grain of sand that I write down its location somewhere on the earth, doing that several times in a row. Not bloody likely.
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