Posted on 11/07/2007 9:35:46 AM PST by tang0r
Yes, under libertarianism the world is free of authoritarian bitching. However, there’s no such thing as “under libertarianism,” and there never will be, for one simple reason: pure libertarian economics are galaxies away from the American mainstream. Although many Americans—especially the young folks—are receptive to the live-and-let-live philosophy (“do whatever you want as long as you don’t harm anyone else”), the vast majority find hardcore social Darwinism ludicrous. If libertarians want to extend their reach beyond the stoner ghetto, they must accept the fact that civil rights are far more vital than sparing billionaires from inheritance taxes.
(Excerpt) Read more at prometheusinstitute.net ...
Why do libertarians always assume that anyone who is not a libertarian must want a welfare check and a nanny-state? Your criticism sort of makes Beckerman's point for him.
That's a large part of it, though it's not the full story.
I would probably qualify as what Beckerman refers to as a "moderate libertarian" (though personally, I would refer to myself as a "Neo-Ciceronian", and anyone who pages through an archive of my posts would see that I am most definitely unfriendly towards "libertarianism"). My beef with libertarianism is several-fold, and extends far beyond the mongoloid foreign policy views of many libertarians:
1) Hard-core libertarians appear to be totally unable to distinguish "some" government or "a little" government on the one hand, and "statism" on the other. I've met libertarians who honestly seem to think that if you aren't in favour of privatising all roads immediately, then you are a Communist.
2) Hard-core libertarians don't seem to be all that capable of considering the consequences of their policy suggestions. Long-term strategic consideration doesn't seem to be their strong point.
3) Hard-core libertarians, despite trying to glom off the reputations of the Founders (especially Jefferson), have a total lack of understanding of the various shades of "liberty ideology" which motivated the Founders. As a result of this, the "liberty" that libertarians promise is often incompatible with the American Constitutional system, a system which I explicitly support as an ideological dogmatism.
4) Hard-core libertarians don't understand, or are purposefuly obtuse about, the fact that private individuals and corporations, if allowed to have the requisite power, can be just oppressive and dehumanising as any government on earth.
5) Hard-core libertarians have such an absurdly reductionist understanding of the "No Harm" principle that it is essentially meaningless - a whole host of behaviours that one person can engage in which do, in real life, have adverse effects on other people are viewed, somehow, as being completely ethically neutral.
6) Hard-core libertarians tend to be rabidly anti-religious, and often believe their own propaganda that any and all religious belief somehow or another equates with tyranny. They somehow missed the point that religious belief, or at least that which is informed by the Judeo-Christian tradition based upon the Bible, is necessary for true liberty because it more often than not serves as a brake on the unsociable behaviour of individuals with each other.
Sorry, but legalizing drugs, refusing to pay taxes, and staying out of the war on terror is not my idea of a solid platform.
Or protecting our country. “Let everyone in” is one of their mottos.
“Pure Libertarian economics” sounds like a return to the feudal age to me.
Excellent post! They just can’t come to grips with the fact that (as just one example) sexual libertinism results in lots of illegitimate babies and absent fathers, and therefore an army of socialist women voters ready to march to the polls to vote for Hillary and socialized medicine. Libertarianism plants the seeds of its own destruction because it’s absolutely impossible to have a low tax, fiscally conservative government after a few years of social liberalism.
I think a lot of hard-core libertarians are young and short on life experience (esp. in things like raising children). They are innately smart enough to realize that liberalism and socialism are crap, but they are handicapped by being raised in a permissive, selfish modern culture and educated by a subversive educational system which doesn't teach the old historical truths about the religious and cultural roots of American freedom. So they get their ideas from economic ideologues, and fiction writers like Ayn Rand or Heinlein. Thus adolescent mental tendencies, like the tendency to oversimplify and obsess, an addiction to fantasy, and the belief that "no one has a right to tell me what to do," dominant their thinking longer than they do in those of most people.
Excellent posts, both!
That is too funny and spot on.
Libertarians are not taken very seriously ‘cause they’re loons.
When they do things like blaming the collision between an EP-3 and a Chinese fighter in International Airspace on the US, there is no reason to take ‘em seriously.
LOL, you are spot-on there. Libertarians are young....and inexperienced. I’m glad I’m a conservative who gets my political ideas from non-fiction works.
ummm no
Yeah, that didn't sound too libertarian.
that’s what I keep trying to tell people...there’s a reason why social liberals and fiscal liberals go together
If libertarians want to get respect, I suggest that they get jobs and move out of their parents’ basement.
Yeah, but the next statement about “civil rights are more important than reducing taxes” - well...
it depends on what “civil rights” he’s referring to. Leftists’ definition of civil rights is using the government to force some sort of “cosmic justice” that can never be reached.
Libertarians/conservatives believe in civil rights, as defined as “everyone succeeding or failing by the same set of rules”.
yeah but then they’d have to compete in the free market.
that is irony
1)There isn't going to be a libertarian order of things (at least not outside science fiction). The weaker you make government the less people are afraid of it, so the more they come to expect of it. And if you leave all power in private hands, eventually there'll be a reaction against that.
2) Many of the defects of government are also found in private corporations. Expect private corporations to fulfill all the functions of government, and you'll find them corrupt in the the ways that governments are.
3) "Statist" has gotten to be a hollow insult. One really eye-opening experience for me was realizing that for hard-core libertarians "statist" wasn't simply a synonym for "socialist." In their eyes, everyone who doesn't fully agree with their idea qualifies as a "statist," even Washington or Jefferson (not bad company to be in).
When Libertarians stay home or vote 3rd party instead of cheerfully supporting the quasi-socialist Republican you have no right to complain then.
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