THE TRUE CONSERVATIVE.... WHO IS ELECTABLE!
FRED VETS, SIGN UP TODAY AT:
Posted on 11/03/2007 5:12:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Most Republican presidential candidates can brag about attracting followers with their valiant stances on important issues.
Rudy Giuliani's followers support him because they think he can beat Hillary Clinton.
In and by itself, the reasoning of Giuliani's supporters is not illogical. Many people do take into account electability when voting for a primary candidate (although most will not sacrifice their basic principles in the name of an election victory).
The problem is, this perceived electability is the only thing going for Giuliani.
But here is the real kicker: Giuliani is not electable.
In fact, he is far less electable than the only other Republican frontrunners understood to be capable of beating Hillary, namely Fred Thompson and John McCain.
To this, Giuliani's people inevitably shout the following talking points: First, Giuliani's moderate standpoint will attract unaffiliated voters, and can help Republicans make up for the unpopularity they have inherited from the George W. Bush years. Second, Giuliani has a lot of conservative accomplishments going for him – just look at how he handled 9/11, reduced crime in New York City, and how he reduced crime in New York City while handling 9/11!
They fail on both points.
First, Giuliani is a liberal. He supports abortion, and welcomes illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities. He opposes gun rights. He supported a Democratic candidate for governor in New York, and among his 75 judicial appointments, Democrats outnumbered Republicans by more than eight to one.
Though he attempted to knock Thompson on tort reform in the last presidential debate, he failed to mention his own poor record on the matter. Only a few years ago he sued two dozen gun manufacturers and distributors for essentially being functioning gun manufacturers and distributors, calling them "an industry which profits from the suffering of innocent people."
Giuliani's supporters will concede that he is not that conservative on social issues, but that really it is a good thing because we don't want extremist evangelical Christians taking over the GOP. But opposing abortion, illegal immigration, gun control and liberal judges does not make you an extremist. It merely makes you conservative.
Knowing they lose on the social issues, the Giuliani team holds on tight to fiscal matters allegedly showing that the man is really conservative. Since economic questions are often not as black and white as social topics, the Giuliani team knows that critics will have a harder time debunking the myth of Giuliani's economic conservatism.
But it can be done, and briefly so.
Giuliani tenaciously battled the line-item veto, which allows the executive to cut waste from legislative bills, taking the fight as far as he could in the courts. Giuliani also defied the promise of free trade – perhaps the only concept economists virtually unanimously support – through his ardent opposition to NAFTA.
These facts might explain why Giuliani indiscriminately answers "crime" and "George Will said I'm conservative" during the presidential debates as many times as Ron Paul brings up "foreign policy" in response to completely unrelated questions. Giuliani has nothing else to run on in order to win over conservatives. Unlike the other candidates, he cannot brag about his primary strength – the perception that he is electable.
But the fact is, the general election will be no head-to-head match up if Giuliani is the Republican nominee. In 2004, the Constitution Party ran Michael Peroutka against President Bush, now widely considered to have pandered to social conservatives in extreme fashion. You bet these social conservatives would run a candidate against nominee Giuliani. You bet the Libertarian Party would eat away more Republican votes. And you bet Clinton would win.
Giuliani is a liberal. And if nominated by the GOP, he would be a liberal running against someone who is better at being liberal. He would have to compete just as hard for conservative votes as for liberal and moderate votes, and he will lose.
Giuliani is not conservative. Giuliani is not electable. A thorough look at his record, the polls and the political reality cannot lead to any other conclusion. He's got the worst of both worlds.
Rudy is a cross dressing, publically funded abortion loving, 9-11 profiteer.
Regards
Rudy is a tax cutting, tough on crime liberal. Simple.
I certainly don’t agree with Rudy G on everything, but fact is the abortion genie is never going back in the bottle. Homosexuality is now open, that’s not going to change either. Some level of gun control is gonna happen. Deal with these things.
Rudy is smart, tough, and ready to defend this country. He is the terrorists’ worse nightmare. He cleaned up NYC when many said it was lost to crime. He’s a prosecutor’s prosecutor. I think he might be another Teddy Roosevelt.
And he sure is better than Hitlery.
All the paid and unpaid pundits like Bill Bennett and other radio talk show hosts are really keeping their eggs in one basket on this one...And they know its a crap shoot in ‘08...
They say they are giving equal time and access to all the candidates, but in their idle banter its all about Rudy...
Don’t get me wrong I like the Morning in America program he puts on...Its low-key and pleasant to listen too, but it bothers me about the constant pushing of a liberal for the Republican party nomination...
Why is it so hard for the leadership and pundits to realize this???
Personally, I believe its part of that big plan that is the real bi-partisan workings behind the scenes...
And most of us are not buying into the BS it is producing anymore...
Yep, ‘08 is going to be a turning point for all of us...
As much as it's anathema to many folks here to acknowledge it, this process is exactly what's going on in the Ron Paul campaign. Paul's constitutionalist standpoint is attracting unaffiliated voters who had given up on either major party following the Constitution years ago, and his opposition to the continued occupation of Iraq is making up for the unpopularity the GOP has inherited from the George W. Bush years.
Seems to me that IF the point is to defeat Hillry the GOP could at least provide a candidate that is more than just running a positive campaign.
I strongly disagree that McCain is more electable than Rudy.
Rudy Giuliani is a short, bald, effeminate, weird New York City lawyer who speaks with a lisp and has probably never made a fist in his life.
He couldn't lead anyone out of a burning house, let alone lead a nation.
And there is nothing wrong in using electability as a means to evaluate a candidate.. That's what politics is all about.
On the other hand, there is something very wrong {shameful?} with selling your own core beliefs up front for a chance to "win".
Exactly. New York Republicans must think that just calling yourself a Republican will automatically draw all the conservative voters like a magnet.
WRONG!!
Are you actually asking us to deal with these things, or accept them?
If it's the latter, then I'll start wondering how you managed to keep your account alive for two years.
APf
But...but...I thought he personally led thousands to safety on 9-11... (/sarcasm)
THE TRUE CONSERVATIVE.... WHO IS ELECTABLE!
FRED VETS, SIGN UP TODAY AT:
"..the continued occupation of Iraq.." Are you sure you belong at this website? Yes, yes, I see that you signed up all the way back in 2000. Good for you. But do you really believe that America is "occupying" Iraq? Sounds a lot like the drivel that proceedeth from the pie holes of Michael Moore, John Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Cindy Sheehan, John Edwards, Jane Fonda, Dennis Kucinich and that crowd. Perhaps you Paulestinians should start your own "conservative" website?
However, because Giuliani is a LIBERAL--he is stuck where he is--already TO THE LEFT OF CENTER!
Hillary will attempt to move to the right to expand her electability (because she will have her base secure).
Rudy CANNOT move to the LEFT--since he has NOT (and never will have) secured the base. Any attempts to move further LEFT to expand his appeal--will help erode what little support he has left in the base.
Giuliani would be a disaster for the Republican Party.
That is what I have been saying.
Rudy will not beat Hillary neither will John Mc Cain.
All a Ridy or a John Mc Cain candidatecy will do is ensure that Hillary wins.
I don’t think that John Mc Cain has a chance [except in his dreams and those of his worshippers] of getting the Republican nomination.
Unfortunately,for real Conservatives, Rudy does. He has the tatic if not open approval of the Republican National Committee. He has the financial backing he has a support base. And he has,at this point in time, in a left handed support of the main stream media.
Should he be the nominee, the last one will fast disappear.
They are some things that are said about Rudy that is true.
He is a fighter. He fought a legal industry tooth and toenail. He sued the gun manufacturers.
If one puts Rudy’s policy statements next to Hillary’s and Bill’s policy statements, one will discover that they agree far more that they differ. If one has any intelligence, this should indicate to one the direction that Rudy’s fight will focus.
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