Anti-Drug Air Base Pact To Be Ended (Ecuador)

The Washington Times ^ | Oct 30, 2007 | not specified

[RDTF]

QUITO, ECUADOR — The Ecuadorean government on Friday insisted on ending a cooperation agreement with the United States that allows the U.S. military to use a coastal air force base for anti-drug operations in the Andes.

-snip-

...Galo Mora, a representative of Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa, told participants at a solidarity forum with Cuba.

The 10-year agreement, signed by the United States and Ecuador in 1999, allows Washington to deploy up to 475 military personnel in Manta in support of counternarcotics operations.

[Conservative til I die]

Of course it would be regulated and taxed. Essentially the government would become a dope-pusher, interested in hooking more addicts in order to raise revenue.

Or just let Phillip Morris or Bayer sell it over the counter (or maybe at the register with the gum and candy bars), hence legitimizing it in addition to legalizing it. Not sure which would be worse.

I'm a bit rusty on my WOD politics...do libertarians also push legalization as a way to lower drug use, or do they admit that it would only increase drug use and abuse?

[jas3]

Since you posted no comments with your text, I fail to see how these areas "will turn into anarchy". These areas are already largely anarchic, and a 400 man airbase in Ecuador has failed to keep them from the FARC or the drug lords.

You also didn't explain why these areas are of critical economic importance, which you claimed in your earlier post.

The Unites States has no business fighting civil wars in Ecuador in economically irrelevant backwaters. I will be glad to see the airbase closed. I hope the FARC loses (although they are only moderately worse than the Morales government), but unless the United States plans to send boots on the ground into South American jungles, there is nothing the United States military can do about it.

[Red6]

Venezuela - Oil
Panama - Strategic canal
Chile- Copper
Brazil Sugar Cane – ethanol fuel/sugar…….

Do you know why we went into Grenada, where a huge runway paid for by the Soviets was being built? Do you think that runway largely built by Cuban workers and DDR (East German engineers) was for tourism and commercial use? Do you realize the Marxist aligned Nicaragua (Sandinistas) were backing the Marxist regime in Grenada?

Do you know why we had a missile crisis years ago with Cuba; what kinds of missiles were being emplaced?

Let’s talk trade; can you grasp the concept that after the US, Brazil is the largest economy on either side of the canal to whom we export 15+ billions dollars worth per year?

Monroe already understood the importance and in 1923 the “Monroe Doctrine” was declared. There has never been a time, not even before the declaration of independence when the US existed in a vacuum. South America is our backyard. What happens there affects us. Others have influence there and when we ignore this part of the world, powers that are not allied with us reach their arms into this region and fill the vacuum. It has always been that case.

Today the spot light is on Islam and the Middle East. Our backyard is nonetheless significant and disengagement will only net worsen our situation. Taking off the pressure from drug cartels that hire mercenaries, a nation from which near ¾ of the worlds cocaine originates, will allow well financed and ruthless thugs to threaten a democracy that even with our financial aid, with our military and DEA assistance, intelligence via CIA/NSA and NIMA (It’s been renamed) still has to have secret courts and judges deliver verdicts from behind mirrored bulletproof glass since sentencing a cartel member often equates to a death sentence for the judge. Do you know what a “Columbian necktie” is?

As I wrote before- Politically the “domino theory” may it be in South East Asia after we withdrew from Vietnam, the Middle East today, the fall of the wall in 1989 and the shattering of the East block, the breaking apart of the former Soviet Republics, or South America; it holds true! Cuba, Venezuela, and the dynamics of a more affluent, more aggressive Russia change the dynamics in South America. Even China has a larger influence in this part of the world than ever before. Like domino’s, the smaller fringe states quickly tend to align themselves with whomever they see as being the power brokers. The rise of Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela in this region is no positive trend. Do you know who the FARC are in bed with? Do you know where a lot of their money comes from?

Those who argue for disengagement are idiots.

[Red6]

He’s all about polemics. All form, no function. As I mentioned, a waste of time.

[jas3]

Venezuela - Oil

Are you aware that Venezuela is already run by a communist dictator? Venezuela is an insignificant trading partner with the US, despite the large heavy crude deposits there. What in the world would an anti-drug air base have to do with oil in Venezuela?

Panama - Strategic canal

Is your theory here that the Panama Canal is protected by an anti-drug airbase? Are you not aware that the United States protects the canal with other assets? Wouldn't the assets wasted in Ecuador be better used in Panama anyhow?

Chile- Copper

Please, there is ZERO effect on global copper production impacted by this air base.

Brazil Sugar Cane – ethanol fuel/sugar…….

Hahhahahaha. Brazilian sugar cane production is thousands of miles away and is economically unimportant to the US anyhow. You might as well argue that Antarctic guano production facilities could be impacted by this air base.

Do you know why we went into Grenada, where a huge runway paid for by the Soviets was being built? Do you think that runway largely built by Cuban workers and DDR (East German engineers) was for tourism and commercial use? Do you realize the Marxist aligned Nicaragua (Sandinistas) were backing the Marxist regime in Grenada?

Yup. And I supported Reagan in that action. That has nothing to do with an anti-drug airbase in Ecuador.

Do you know why we had a missile crisis years ago with Cuba; what kinds of missiles were being emplaced?

Yup. And once again, that has nothing to do with an air base in Ecuador or the drug war.

Let’s talk trade; can you grasp the concept that after the US, Brazil is the largest economy on either side of the canal to whom we export 15+ billions dollars worth per year?

Yes I can. And an anti-drug air base in Ecuador will have zero impact on securing Brazilian trade, the importance of which you overstate. $15 billion is not even 1% of US national product. If Brazil disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, the US economy would not miss a beat. You are pretending it is as important as Canada, which it is not. Brazil is largely irrelevant.

Monroe already understood the importance and in 1923 the “Monroe Doctrine” was declared. There has never been a time, not even before the declaration of independence when the US existed in a vacuum. South America is our backyard. What happens there affects us. Others have influence there and when we ignore this part of the world, powers that are not allied with us reach their arms into this region and fill the vacuum. It has always been that case.

I was unaware that the Monroe Doctrine was declared quite so late after Monroe left office, but thanks for the history lesson. After you research the Monroe Doctrine a little more to get your date right, you might consider that not existing in a vacuum does not require useless air bases in unfriendly countries. Further, not having an air base in Ecuador does not equate to ignoring the rest of the world.

Today the spot light is on Islam and the Middle East. Our backyard is nonetheless significant and disengagement will only net worsen our situation. Taking off the pressure from drug cartels that hire mercenaries, a nation from which near ¾ of the worlds cocaine originates, will allow well financed and ruthless thugs to threaten a democracy that even with our financial aid, with our military and DEA assistance, intelligence via CIA/NSA and NIMA (It’s been renamed) still has to have secret courts and judges deliver verdicts from behind mirrored bulletproof glass since sentencing a cartel member often equates to a death sentence for the judge. Do you know what a “Columbian necktie” is?

Ecuador is not "our backyard". It is not even in the same zip code. Tell me why the people and government of a democratically elected Ecuadorian government want the US to leave? You seem to hold out democracy as the goal but refuse to accept that the people do not want the US military on their soil. Leaving the air base and withdrawing 400 staff does not equal disengagement.

As I wrote before- Politically the “domino theory” may it be in South East Asia after we withdrew from Vietnam, the Middle East today, the fall of the wall in 1989 and the shattering of the East block, the breaking apart of the former Soviet Republics, or South America; it holds true! Cuba, Venezuela, and the dynamics of a more affluent, more aggressive Russia change the dynamics in South America. Even China has a larger influence in this part of the world than ever before. Like domino’s, the smaller fringe states quickly tend to align themselves with whomever they see as being the power brokers. The rise of Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela in this region is no positive trend. Do you know who the FARC are in bed with? Do you know where a lot of their money comes from?

Those who argue for disengagement are idiots.

What about those who think that the United States is a colonial power? Are they "idiots" too? What about people who are unable to distinguish betewen removing an air base and disengagement? Are they idiots? What about people who think that the government of Evo Morales is not already a domino that has fallen? Are they idiots?

jas3

[Red6]

Whatever,

I don’t have the time to waste.

[jas3]

Whatever,

I don’t have the time to waste.

I'm sure you'll be spending your time researching the 1923 Monroe Doctrine and how anti-drug air bases in Ecuador can be used to defend vital interests of the US, like Brazilian sugar cane production.

Good luck to you, sir, and thanks for playing. Please feel free to try again at a later date.

jas3

[Tailgunner Joe]

1. I'm not the person you were originally posting to. I just wanted to give you some of the information you asked for.

2. Morales is the Chavista in power in Bolivia, not Ecuador.

3. We already have boots on the ground in Colombia. South American stability is of crucial importance to the national security of the United States of America. It is absolutely unacceptable to allow South America to be taken over by communist narco-terrorists.

You will be glad to see the airbase closed? So will all the communist terrorists in South America. If you want the US out of South America, then you should support Hugo Chavez and all the communist terrorists in South America who want the same thing as you do.

[Tailgunner Joe]

What about those who think that the United States is a colonial power? Are they "idiots" too?

No they are liars known as communists.

[Tailgunner Joe]

do libertarians also push legalization as a way to lower drug use, or do they admit that it would only increase drug use and abuse?

They really don't seem to care. The libertarian attitude is, if you want to poison yourself, go right ahead.

You put your finger on it when you pointed out the utopian nature of libertarian philosophy. Like liberalism, it only works in theory, not in practice. Libertarians are also much like liberals in that they do not recognize or acknowledge the terrible unintended consequences that result from their naive good intentions.

[jas3]

What about those who think that the United States is a colonial power? Are they "idiots" too?

No they are liars known as communists.

So would that include the majority of the Ecuadorian population which wishes the United States military off their soil? And if so, do they have the right as communist liars to self-determination? Or, because they are communist liars, are their wishes less important than those of the United States?

The bottom line is that if the majority of the population of Ecuador doesn't want the US military in their country, what justification is there for staying past the lease expiration? Answer: none.

jas3

[jas3]

1). OK. Thanks.

2). D’OH ! I meant Rafael Correa. I get my socialists mixed up.

3). I don’t buy #3. Why is South American stability any more important than African stability? Other than proximity to the Panama Canal, why is any part of South America of crucial importance?

Yes, I will be glad to see the airbase closed because the Ecuador people want it closed, and it is a waste of taxpayers’ dollars.

I’m sure the communist terrorists like Oreo cookies, and I do too. That does not make me a communist or a terrorist. Nor do I support Hugo Chavez and “all the communist terrorists in South America who want the same thing as I do” and who like the same flavor cookies as I do.

I hear that you think Eva Mendez is hot. Hugo Chavez thinks so too. Ergo you are a communist terrorist? Of course not.

But one does not have to support communist terrorists to be happy that Manta air base will be closed.

jas3

[Tailgunner Joe]

Personally I don’t give a crap what most Ecuadorians want. I only care about American interests. If most Ecuadorians support anti-American communists, then they are my enemies and I don’t want them to get what they want.

[jas3]

Personally I don’t give a crap what most Ecuadorians want. I only care about American interests. If most Ecuadorians support anti-American communists, then they are my enemies and I don’t want them to get what they want.

Do you feel the same way about the rest of South America? Maybe the right course of action would be to invade Venezuela, Ecuador, and Columbia and any other country which doesn't want what you want? Why even allow their citizens to exercise democracy if it doesn't result in the outcomes that benefit American interests? The Romans installed governors in their foreign territories, as did the British in theirs. Perhaps the United States should simply declare South America as their territory, deploy troops, and protect their interests? Sound good?

jas3

[Tailgunner Joe]

Defending the democracy of foreign countries is America’s job now? Including our enemies? Not in my opinion. If they don’t want their sovereignty violated, then they shouldn’t decide to be our enemies.

[jas3]

Defending the democracy of foreign countries is America’s job now? Including our enemies? Not in my opinion. If they don’t want their sovereignty violated, then they shouldn’t decide to be our enemies.

It was never America's job. Hopefully we agree on that.

Not sure what you mean by "If they don’t want their sovereignty violated, then they shouldn’t decide to be our enemies."

Does non-renewing an air base lease constitute becoming an enemy of the US?

jas3

[Tailgunner Joe]

So it's not our job? I got the impression from your posts that the democratic wishes of foreign countries were important to you, and that we should respect them. No?

Supporting Hugo Chavez makes one an enemy of America. All communists are enemies of America by definition.

[jas3]

So it's not our job? I got the impression from your posts that the democratic wishes of foreign countries were important to you, and that we should respect them. No?

Nope. It is not the job of the US to uphold foreign democracies unless there is a mutual defense pact. It is up to each foreign country to defend itself. If it does not, that's a shame.

If you are asking if I would respect the rights of a foreign democracy to remove foreign soldiers from their soil, then the answer is YES. Of course they have that right. But I'm not going to help them with US taxpayers' dollars.

Hugo Chavez is just a typical run of the mill dictator. He's pulling a Mugabe and will soon impoverish Venezuela, esp. when oil prices revert back to about $60.

jas3

[Tailgunner Joe]

If you are asking if I would respect the rights of a foreign democracy to remove foreign soldiers from their soil, then the answer is YES.

They have the right to try.

[jas3]

They have the right to try.

They have the right whether they try or not.

jas3