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Rudy, the Values Slayer (A Barf But He Has A Point And A Question For Social Conservatives)
New York Times ^ | 28 October 2007 | Frank Rich

Posted on 10/28/2007 5:57:38 AM PDT by shrinkermd

When Rudy’s candidacy started to show legs, pundits and family values activists alike assumed that ignorant voters knew only his 9/11 video reel and not his personal history or his stands on issues. “Americans do not yet realize how far outside of the mainstream of conservative thought that Mayor Giuliani’s social views really are,” declared Tony Perkins, the Family Research Council leader, in February. But despite Rudy’s fleeting stabs at fudging his views, they are well known now, and still he leads in national polls of Republican voters and is neck and neck with Fred Thompson in the Bible Belt sanctuary of South Carolina.

There are various explanations for this. One is that 9/11 and terrorism fears trump everything. Another is that the rest of the field is weak. But the most obvious explanation is the one that Washington resists because it contradicts the city’s long-running story line. Namely, that the political clout ritualistically ascribed to Mr. Perkins, James Dobson of Focus on the Family, Gary Bauer of American Values and their ilk is a sham.

These self-promoting values hacks don’t speak for the American mainstream. They don’t speak for the Republican Party. They no longer speak for many evangelical ministers and their flocks. The emperors of morality have in fact had no clothes for some time. Should Rudy Giuliani end up doing a victory dance at the Republican convention, it will be on their graves.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: change; conservatives; frankrich; giuliani; rudy; socialconservatives; valuesvoters
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Is the political clout of Dobson et al declining is his question?
1 posted on 10/28/2007 5:57:40 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd

I’m not sure they had that much “clout” to begin with. What they had was creted by the media trying to discredit them. Christian Conservatives wil vote their principles whether Dobson et al tell them to or not. I seriously doubt that most Christians will vote for rudy (unless he is the only alternative to hillary). They won’t vote for him in the primary.


2 posted on 10/28/2007 6:08:33 AM PDT by WVNan
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To: shrinkermd

The President is not my spiritual leader.


3 posted on 10/28/2007 6:27:30 AM PDT by Carolyn826
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To: shrinkermd

His basic premise is totally flawed. Rudy Giuliani is leading the Republican pack because the pack is so large. He’s only getting the support of about 20%-25% of the GOP voters in any given poll. If the field weren’t so crowded he’d be nothing more than a leftist side-show who is the Republican version of Dennis Kucinich.


4 posted on 10/28/2007 6:28:33 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: WVNan

RINO Rudy is the PERFECT CANDIDATE—for the other party.
He would drag it (kicking and screaming, no doubt) back from its leftist precipice and a LOT closer to the mainstream.
The Reagan Democrats would listen, and he would get their vote along with most of the Moonbat vote. As a D—he would be a shoo-in.
He’s GREAT for them running as a Republican, too. Like Gov Pataki of old, he would utterly gut the party and leave it an impotent shell the way Pataki did for the NY GOP. He MIGHT get a 2nd term, but would leave us with unstoppable Democrat majorities in the House and Senate for years to come.


5 posted on 10/28/2007 6:30:16 AM PDT by Flintlock
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To: shrinkermd

Dobson etc do not really lead people to the polls so to speak, IMO most Evangelicals and conservative Christians would never put up with a single person speaking completely for them.

What the Dobson’s of the world are able to is to align issues and make them important, “if” Dobson or whomever makes abortion or gay marriage an issue for a few weeks before an election, that is what will be on Conservative Christian’s minds heading into the polls.

But endorsements may not be what they really are able to use to influence voters.


6 posted on 10/28/2007 6:30:17 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ No more miller brewing products, pass it on/Isaiah 3.3)
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To: shrinkermd

Since liberals are people who believe in totalitarian enforced behavior and are suckers for the cult of personality they mistakenly assume that social conservatives are also mindless followers of some anointed demi-god. Libs will mindlessly follow Hitlery over the cliff by the millions but Dobson’s influence is more in the minds of liberals than in the minds of values voters.

This article is just more lib projection. Imagine Frank Rich, the demoRATS running dog, accuse any one else of being a hack. LOL!


7 posted on 10/28/2007 6:31:01 AM PDT by Seruzawa (Attila the Hun... wasn't he a liberal?)
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To: shrinkermd

Any time the NYT says anything in defense of or in support of a candidate, any candidate, I am immediately disposed to look unfavorably on that candidate.


8 posted on 10/28/2007 6:31:05 AM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: shrinkermd
"Is the political clout of Dobson et al declining is his question?"

Based on a previous post by you, I think that would be your wish. I mean, to post Frank freakin' Rich!!

LOL

Of course that moroon wants the Christians to lose clout. He's probably a pillow cruncher like everyone else at the nyt.

You'll see what's happen to the Christian vote soon enough, my guess is that its right where its always been.

9 posted on 10/28/2007 6:34:06 AM PDT by Pietro
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To: rlmorel
The NYTimes rarely gets anything right, either. ;^)
10 posted on 10/28/2007 6:35:20 AM PDT by tioga
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To: Seruzawa

Bump!


11 posted on 10/28/2007 6:37:44 AM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
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To: Flintlock
Exactly. Without even looking at Giuliani's "Train Wreck" of a personal life,,,,as I repeatedly say on here,,,,

Liberal Republicans like Giuliani are much more dangerous than liberal democrats,,,,

because liberal Republicans (like Rudy) BLUR THE DISTINCTION between conservatism and liberalism,,,,

MAKING LIBERALISM MUCH MORE ACCEPTABLE!!!

Rudy would be an absolute disaster for the Republican Party.

12 posted on 10/28/2007 6:39:52 AM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: shrinkermd

No more perverts in the White House!

13 posted on 10/28/2007 6:43:57 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: shrinkermd

He may, and probably will, get the Republican nomonation for Presidental Candidate.

But he will never bear Hillary in the General election.

He knows and the Republican hierarchy know this.


14 posted on 10/28/2007 6:44:36 AM PDT by sport
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To: shrinkermd; Liz
There are various explanations for this. One is that 9/11 and terrorism fears trump everything.

Frank Rich couldn't think his way out of the back of a Volkswagen. Rooty is the only one running exclusively on his 9-11 experience. Look where he is. He's not getting anywhere near a majority. He's pretty much tied with Thompson and Romney who AREN'T playing that "I was so changed by 9-11" card every time they appear in front of a reporter.

15 posted on 10/28/2007 6:51:57 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: shrinkermd
No. The problem is too many Establishment DC Republicans listen more to their political enemies like Frank El-Rich and the NY Jihad times instead of their voters.
16 posted on 10/28/2007 6:55:10 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (Pacifism is not moral. True morality requires evil be opposed, not appeased)
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To: shrinkermd
LOL...Rooty Tooters are really having to dig deep. I mean...Frank Rich?!??

Gimme a break.

And...for what it's worth...none of the candidates' views are well known, because few are yet paying attention.

17 posted on 10/28/2007 6:55:55 AM PDT by B Knotts (Tancredo '08!)
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To: Carolyn826

The President is not my spiritual leader.
-
that’s what democrats said about Bill clinton during the impeachment


18 posted on 10/28/2007 6:58:23 AM PDT by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: shrinkermd; Liz; Spiff; TommyDale; mkjessup; narses
When Rudy’s candidacy started to show legs, pundits and family values activists alike assumed that ignorant voters knew only his 9/11 video reel

But his 9/11 record is not what he claims.

His testimony before the 9/11 Commission was to be sequestered until after November 2008. But it has gotten out and raises a lot more questions about 9/11 Rudi.

YouTube - RUDY GIULIANI'S SECRET 9/11 TESTIMONY
19 posted on 10/28/2007 7:00:49 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Apres moi, le deluge.)
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To: raybbr; George W. Bush
9-11 Rooty is fodder for late night comedy routines.

Jay Leno as debate moderator.....getting ready to ask Rooty a question.

Rooty pipes up, "9-11."

Leno: “Mayor, I haven’t asked you a question yet”!

20 posted on 10/28/2007 7:15:06 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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