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Three new fires in San San Bernardino.Mountains (San Bernardino.pulls firefighters from Malibu)
SB Fire & Wind Coverage Blog ^ | 10/22/2007 11:15 AM | Jason Pesick

Posted on 10/22/2007 11:29:32 AM PDT by Smogger

Tracey Martinez, a spokeswoman with the San Bernardino County Fire Department, said officials believe the Rim Forest fire is related to a 1.5 acre blaze that firefighters dealt with Sunday.

Winds are soaring at 60-to-70 miles per hour late this morning.

"Resources are very strained," Martinez said. "We cannot use air attack right now. We have a lot of fires in California."

The county cannot bring its entire force to bear in the mountains because firefighters must be stationed around the county in case any more blazes ignite elsewhere, she said.

But the county did pull back its firefighters from the Malibu blaze, she said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: fire; sanbernardino; wildfire; wildfires
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To: dragnet2

You are right, FWIW. Neither goats (?!?) nor anything else can appreciably reduce the fuel load in those vast, rugged areas, so the only real option is to stop building on the fringes of the high risk zones - and to change the building codes to strictly forbid construction of wood frame homes in San Diego County. Steel-frame only, with fire-resistant exteriors should be a requirement.


81 posted on 10/22/2007 2:47:15 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Smogger; Allegra; EX52D; StephenTX; wallcrawlr; Xenalyte; Tatze; MaryFromMichigan; Chanticleer; ...
The further left Kalifornia moves, the less and less I give a hang about them. They want to live their green leftist way, support Democrats who want the US to lose the War on Terror and then try to force their views upon me via legislation. So do not expect me to lose a second of sleep for these folks. If they cannot see the forest for the trees, then they deserve to be consumed.
82 posted on 10/22/2007 3:06:21 PM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: Inspectorette

Saddleback Community College in Mission Viejo has been closed...and Ladera Ranch has started evacuations...


83 posted on 10/22/2007 3:34:38 PM PDT by repubmom (Proud Army Mom of two soldiers - one deployed! Psalm 91)
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To: dragnet2

First, I used to live in SoCal. I’ve seen the terrain, I’ve hiked the terrain, I used to volunteer for the USFS in the Angeles NF.

So yes, I’ve got a clue. Been there, seen that.

Second: we’ve got plenty of steep terrain here in Nevada. Everyone thinks that Nevada looks like what they see in the low desert around Vegas. That terrain holds true only up to US-6, which runs east/west across the state. North of that, we have a basin/range topology, with plenty of steep, heavily wooded terrain.

So we’ve got much of the same terrain in the northern part of the state as you’re dealing with there in SoCal.

What do I suggest? They should be doing urban interface projects, the way we’ve had to ram through courts and the IBLA out here in Nevada. You don’t have to clean up all the wooded terrain, but you should be thinning the urban/wildland interfaces. You should be spraying to kill the bark beetles. Where the bark beetles have killed significant stands of trees, they should be logged out.

And yes, this is going to require moving lots of people to and fro. You can do it while it is fuel, or you can do it when it is alight. Your choice.


84 posted on 10/22/2007 3:39:25 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: coloradan

Well, you wouldn’t be contracting out the ‘right’ to controlled burns, but accepting bids to conduct them within certain parameters.

I think that it could be done, but the “land management agencies” (as they fashion themselves) would resist the idea of contracting out the controlled burns. I’ve seen the results of private contractors lighting backfires here in Nevada, and they’re far more competent than the BLM, so there is merit in having it contracted out.


85 posted on 10/22/2007 3:43:59 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: dragnet2

Having seen the budgets to fight these fires, and the insurance claims that result from when they get away from you, you’re raising a strawman.

You can pay now, or you can pay later. Californians have chosen to pay later.

If you’ve been paying attention, insurance carriers are not renewing policy coverage for homeowners in the face of fires like this since the last big spate of fires you had. In a couple more years, homeowners and businesses will be 100% on the hook for the costs of loss and recovery as a result of these fires.

At that point, I think Californians will find a way to clear that brush out more cheaply.

And, BTW — I’ve seen what the modern state of mechanical thinning machinery is here. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised at what the new machines can accomplish in tight, steep terrain. The machines exist. The contractors exist. The market for the wood exists.

What Californians lack is the will to *do* something about the problem.


86 posted on 10/22/2007 3:47:33 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Mr. Jeeves; Avoiding_Sulla; calcowgirl
You are right, FWIW. Neither goats (?!?) nor anything else can appreciably reduce the fuel load in those vast, rugged areas,

According to the Smithsonian book of North American Animals goats spend ten percent of their time on slopes over 60° (or 170%), and that's without shepherds or dogs to keep them there to eat. The vast bulk of the Southwestern terrain of concern here is below that slope. Continuing on your false premise,

so the only real option is to stop building on the fringes of the high risk zones - and to change the building codes to strictly forbid construction of wood frame homes in San Diego County. Steel-frame only, with fire-resistant exteriors should be a requirement.

You've got government designing houses, eh? Great idea. I can just see the lobbyists lining up to get in on that feeding frenzy. Who needs an honest buck when we've got Sustained Develop-mint!

ccg, we've got another one.

87 posted on 10/22/2007 3:52:30 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: NVDave
we’ve got plenty of steep terrain here in Nevada. Everyone thinks that Nevada looks like what they see in the low desert around Vegas.

Dave, Nevada is not California. Outside of Vegas and Reno, Nevada has a tiny population. It's has no where near the homes, the population, or annual Santa Ana winds, mixed with low humidity etc.

There are homes and small towns scattered all over thousands of square miles, filled with brush, that when hit with fire, can travel at 50 miles per hour, throwing hot embers miles ahead of the actual fire, hop scotching all over the place. I know some here would like to manage all of this, and I wish it were possible.

Other than stopping building, sprawl, restricting where they can build, there is little that can be done, outside of using fire retardant building materials, green belts, clearing brush etc...which most have already done...But even then, there is no guarantee in these types of wind blown fire storms.

88 posted on 10/22/2007 3:53:24 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: BurbankKarl

I just got home from work and didn’t even know of these fires. She showed me the fire map and the quantity of fires immediately made me think 911 part two. Then I asked her, “how did they start?” She said arson.

According to the google map, all of the populated west part of Southern California is on fire. I strongly suspect this is an organized attack. I doubt it is the enviro-wenies but more likely muslims.


89 posted on 10/22/2007 3:56:34 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in 1938.)
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To: Smogger

Impeach Bush for not putting a stop to these fires.


90 posted on 10/22/2007 4:02:59 PM PDT by dotnetfellow
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To: Inspectorette; TankerKC; Sig Sauer P220; Smogger; BlessedBeGod; Ernest_at_the_Beach; poobear; ...

“Any threat to Camp Pendleton?”

They are evacuating Fallbrook. This is not good news. If the fire spreads in the wrong direction.. it could really be disasterous.


91 posted on 10/22/2007 4:04:25 PM PDT by 444Flyer (Pray for our firefighters!)
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To: poobear

I’m sorry it took so long to answer...I’m at work. Um, working. :)

Have they found someplace to stay???


92 posted on 10/22/2007 4:04:50 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (Mother of the Bride here, treat me with respect for once, will ya? ;))
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To: Bender2
The further left Kalifornia moves, the less and less I give a hang about them. They want to live their green leftist way, support Democrats who want the US to lose the War on Terror and then try to force their views upon me via legislation. So do not expect me to lose a second of sleep for these folks. If they cannot see the forest for the trees, then they deserve to be consumed.

Wow.

93 posted on 10/22/2007 4:05:42 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (Mother of the Bride here, treat me with respect for once, will ya? ;))
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To: Smogger
From RimOfTheWorld.net firefighter scanner transcript service:

03:58 PM Source: scanner Golden Rule and Manitoba; 15 to 20 hispanic males in the back of a truck appears to be getting ready to loot; SO en route

94 posted on 10/22/2007 4:08:45 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Smogger

My niece is in Hesperia and said wildlife is heading their way. She say numerous hawks in the sky over her home.


95 posted on 10/22/2007 4:09:29 PM PDT by antceecee (where do we go from here Ollie?.)
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To: jimtorr

My aunt worked at Norton. She was a civilian working for General Shultz. I think. I’m sure about his last name, not sure about the “general”.


96 posted on 10/22/2007 4:12:47 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby (I was born with nothing. So far I have most of it left.)
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To: Smogger

I was in that area yesterday and the winds were so strong there were many many trucks over on their side. My SUV was really rocking.
My niece was heading home to Hesperia and said the wood on the guard rails on the side of the road just burst into flames.


97 posted on 10/22/2007 4:14:00 PM PDT by antceecee (where do we go from here Ollie?.)
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To: dragnet2
"... Dave, Nevada is not California. Outside of Vegas and Reno, Nevada has a tiny population. It's has no where near the homes, the population, or annual Santa Ana winds, mixed with low humidity etc."

Yeah, and NV has nowhere near the amount of enviro-wackos that CA does.

When the South Tahoe Fire started this summer, it was the CA side that got burnt while the NV side stayed unburnt.

I point out to you that the NV residents of Tahoe were fined for not clearing their properties of low-lying fuel and scheduling tree removal, while at the same time a CA-side resident of the lake was hit with multiple felony counts for having three trees on his property felled without an impossible-to-get permit.

Also, the CA side of the lake is required to actually place pine needles down on their property to allegedly 'prevent erosion in order to preserve the clarity of the lake'.

If I'm lying, I'm dying.

98 posted on 10/22/2007 4:14:03 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid

that would be a good shoot


99 posted on 10/22/2007 4:14:52 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: Brad's Gramma
The further left Kalifornia moves, the less and less I give a hang about them. They want to live their green leftist way, support Democrats who want the US to lose the War on Terror and then try to force their views upon me via legislation. So do not expect me to lose a second of sleep for these folks. If they cannot see the forest for the trees, then they deserve to be consumed.

Gramma, you and I have been here a long time - as you well know, there's always gotta be some a**hole on every disaster thread, blaming everybody who lives there for what's happening. I guess we should be used to it by now, but it still eats at the craw.

100 posted on 10/22/2007 4:15:38 PM PDT by Inspectorette
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