Posted on 10/21/2007 9:38:17 AM PDT by kellynla
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. … The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom, and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is. … I think that libertarianism and conservatism are traveling the same path."
– President Ronald Reagan
That quotation was appropriately reprinted on the first page of the official program for the Conservative Leadership Conference in Reno last weekend, an event that sought to rebuild the largely frayed conservative/libertarian Reagan coalition in time to spare the country from a Hillary Clinton presidency. I spoke to the group about my exit from the Republican Party, but after listening to other speakers and attendees gathered for the three-day event, I must conclude that Reagan's words no longer ring true.
Conservatives and libertarians are marching to different drummers, going on different paths going in opposite directions. The libertarians still are committed to "less government interference" and "less centralized authority," but conservatives these days are more interested in building an all-powerful central government to wage war on real and perceived enemies at home and abroad. Conservatives use the word "freedom" while they wax poetic about American military might. But the policies they promote show no sign of trusting individual Americans to live their lives as they please and every sign of trusting the government to do what is best. During the Cold War, an inspiring leader such as Reagan was able to keep internal peace, as both factions battled their mutual enemies: the Soviet empire and tax-and-spend Democrats.
(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
Yep, and it will probably grow if the SoCons throw a fit [threatening their own value voting coalition] when, not if, they cannot handle whomever the GOP’s candidate for president happens to be, post primaries.
The conservative coalition has always been traditionalists, anti-communists, and libertarians and always in a state of “crack-up.” Not goosestepping rats like the liberals.
Hunter championed a government that was about bossing everybody around. "It is in the interests of the United States to expand freedom," he said. "If you don't change the world, the world will change you." And, boy, did Hunter offer plans to change the world. He vowed to take on China and Iran, to continue what he viewed as a successful war in Iraq, to crack down on illegal immigration and to expand government spending on the military. He talked about "duty, honor, country" but not about liberty.
Yeah, Mr. 1% is the one for me!! < /sarc> BTW, here's a great drinking game for tonight's debate. I would suggest a drinking game thread but feel I'd probably pass out 15 minutes into the debate following those rules...
Like all libertarians, Greenhut doesn’t have a clue what the true basis of liberty even is. Sad.
Yep, and it will probably grow if the SoCons throw a fit [threatening their own value voting coalition] when, not if, they cannot handle whomever the GOP’s candidate for president happens to be, post primaries.
***That’s a lot of posturing for one sentence. It will PROBABLY grow ... IF the socons... but then you say WHEN, NOT IF later on. It’s simply too much to bite off as a hypothetical. Are you a socon? Did you know this is a socon site rather than a GOP site?
Yes they do but people who value small government and personal freedom are supposed to just shut up and get on board with the religious right because we all know the country needs more toothless laws governing pornography and internet gambling.
The solution? IMO, the Gelding Old Party must get a testicle and spine implant, return to its conservative roots and encourage conservatives who are registered Independents, registered conservative Pro-Life Democrats and former conservative Republicans who have departed to come together in the GOP so that conservatives can take back the party, the Congress, the WH & our country! And let the “legalizing of illegal drugs” Libertarians stick to their own party & beliefs.
Didn't really know that since I saw the word 'Free' in the name. Then again, I have read my fair share of populist crap since I became a member and that populism seems to be growing in its influence.
That’s a lot of posturing for one sentence. It will PROBABLY grow ... IF the socons... but then you say WHEN, NOT IF later on. It’s simply too much to bite off as a hypothetical. Are you a socon? Did you know this is a socon site rather than a GOP site?
Yes, the Libertarian Party probably will grow...when someone that the SoCons disdain becomes the Republican party nominee for president and the SoCons, as a result, threaten retaliation for the party at large choosing incorrectly [libertarian leaning conservatives will probably find newer alliances]. Would you also like to doubt that SoCons are threatening to either vote third-party or sit out election day?
I just wish they would have their own web forum.
The differences between libertarians and conservatives are there, but not what he highlights. It helps to look at the basics of either philosophy.
Libertarianism is reliant on a government that is focused on two things: a strong national defense against foreign aggression, and strong internal security to protect us from each other, that is, law and order as a social contract.
However, both of these basic requirements of government have two sides, the other of which is *not* desired by Libertarians.
The flip side of a defense against foreign aggression is foreign entanglement. When our leaders become concerned with internationalism, they elevate the interests of other nations over our own. And while it is good to advance the revolution of liberty, depriving America of its wealth and blood to do so are questionable to Libertarians.
The flip side of protecting us from each other, that is, from the villains in society, is an overreaching government that tries to protect us from *ourselves*. This strikes at the heart of Libertarianism, and individual liberty and freedom. The government has no right to try and change the people “for their own good.”
The basic idea of conservatism, on the other hand, is to a great extent maintaining the status quo. Conservatives are “conservative”, hesitant to change in any direction. When change is needed, they prefer it be gradual and thoughtful.
Much of what motivates conservatives today is the belief that change has gone too far to the left, and that the status quo needs adjustment back to what worked better in the past, and was inappropriately changed. In other words, an error correction mechanism in government; for government to be able to admit error, and not reinforce defeat with endless effort.
So then what is the division between Libertarians and conservatives? Simply put, conservatives, as seen in the days of Reagan, object less to government spending than to the rate of growth of new spending.
While if pressed, conservatives might say they prefer smaller government, as a practical matter they do not press for it. They do not demand of their representatives that both what the central government promises to do and what it actually does, be diminished.
They wouldn’t mind if the Department of Education was abolished, for example, but they are not going to press for it.
And this is the real difference between the two philosophies. Libertarians vie for libertarianism across the board. Conservatives vie for inertia to change.
- Taxes: the sky is the limit
- Entitlements: the sky is the limit
- Environment: all hail to GW
- Corruption: what corruption?
- Spending: what entitlement problem? what war?
- Labor: unions R Us
- Energy: we are the energy czars
- Government employment: more tribute for the ruling class
- Judges: what constitution?
We do, but whenever we exercise within that party we get bitched at for "throwing the election" to the Democrats by you guys.
Libertarians and conservatives are natural allies. I don't understand the fighting between them. Conservatives: How about ending the drug war, stop promoting big government through faith, and limit the size of government. Libertarians: Start protecting the unborn, start securing the borders, and realize that we live in a dangerous world.
You may now kiss the bride.
It’s fairly simple - Conservatives still believe, at the outset, that the State can solve certain social ills via government programs or legislation. IOW they believe in a bigger “smaller government” than the one libertarians believe in.
"we all know the country needs more toothless laws governing pornography?"
and just what “personal freedom” have you been denied?
child porno? bestiality? growing marijuana or making cocaine?
I got a bad feeling about this debate. Dr. Paul should withdraw from it - I smell some type of setup.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.