Posted on 10/05/2007 1:44:55 PM PDT by NYer
The Vatican is to publish a book which is expected to shed light on the demise of the Knights Templar, a Christian military order from the Middle Ages.
The book is based on a document known as the Chinon parchment, found in the Vatican Secret Archives six years ago after years of being incorrectly filed.
The document is a record of the heresy hearings of the Templars before Pope Clement V in the 14th Century.
The official who found the paper says it exonerates the knights entirely.
Prof Barbara Frale, who stumbled across the parchment by mistake, says that it lays bare the rituals and ceremonies over which the Templars were accused of heresy.
In the hearings before Clement V, the knights reportedly admitted spitting on the cross, denying Jesus and kissing the lower back of the man proposing them during initiation ceremonies.
However, many of the confessions were obtained under torture and knights later recanted or tried to claim that their initiation ceremony merely mimicked the humiliation the knights would suffer if they fell into the hands of the Muslim leader Saladin.
The leader of the order, Jacques de Moley, was one of those who confessed to heresy, but later recanted.
He was burned at the stake in Paris in 1314, the same year that the Pope dissolved the order.
However, according to Prof Frale, study of the document shows that the knights were not heretics as had been believed for 700 years.
In fact she says "the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights... the document we have found absolves them".
Details of the parchment will be published as part of Processus contra Templarios, a book that will be released by the Vatican's Secret Archive on 25 October.
You know far less about history than you think. If Philip was a papal lackey then please explain to me how Philip, THE LACKEY, got the gumption to kidnap Pope Boniface VIII?
Lackeys usually do not kidnap those they are supposedly lackeys to.
Explain that one, genius.
You wrote:
“Oh come on !!! The Vatican could have stepped in but decided not to. They wanted the Templars gone as well.”
After the Templars were arrested (5,000 in one night by Philip’s police), and were tortured into confessions, yes, the Papacy wanted them gone - because they looked guilty as hell.
Can you produce one document that shows the papacy was plotting against the Templars BEFORE the rumors of their supposed debauchery began circulating? Did you even know that Clement V and Jacque de Molay were working toward the declaration of another crusade in 1307? Did you know that the pope was at first outraged that Philip moved against the Templars without even advising him they were under suspicion of committing crimes? Why not read one of Malcom Barber’s classics on the Templars? Read The New Knighthood, or perhaps, The Trial of the Templars. You might actually learn something.
..and there I go complementing you in another post only to find this. Please don't blindly follow accusations. We saw what happened in 1307 when that happens.
Thanks for the ping. Be interesting to see what the Vatican does. I will be surprised if they pronounce some sort of exoneration. The reason the church persecuted the Knights was their holding the teachings of Christ that the same church suppressed: karma and reincarnation, the indwelling Christ potential in all souls, and the evolving of the soul
over many lifetimes. These teachings of Jesus directly threaten the church’s power (and all its subsequent off-shoots), hence their suppression.
But it was more than just money, either Charles' father or grandfather begged for help from the Knights to battle someone somewhere (I can't remember) and the Knights failed to help him. So for Charles it was also personal.
The problem with the internet is that it is easy to find hundreds of so called orders that claim association, most of which probably sprung up in the past decade.
That is certainly true. They spend a lot of time and energy debunking the false claims. Their organization began in 1979.
not Charles....Philip
Another, possible conflict was Philip II's oppression of the Cathars which started about the same time. This mass genocide created some divisions among the dukedoms as the Cathars were wealthy and held large amounts of land.
“However, according to Prof Frale, study of the document shows that the knights were not heretics as had been believed for 700 years.
In fact she says “the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights... the document we have found absolves them”. “
Why would the Pope have asked for the Templars to pardon him?
Does the parchment disclose the location of the Holy Grail?
Post 76 has a clue.
I don’t think an apology makes much sense - after all, there are no Templars to apologize to?
It would be pretty hard to prove that a group “went underground” for 400 years and then re-emerged. (Where’s the documentation?) It’s much easier to believe that a group might claim a connection to an earlier group if they saw a chance of getting their assets (or for other reasons). But the European Union may have some kind of court that would find in favor of the Freemasons, just to inflict damages on the Vatican.
You wrote:
“Why would the Pope have asked for the Templars to pardon him?”
Did he ask? All I saw was this: “In fact she says the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights... the document we have found absolves them.
So according to Frale says he was obliged to? According to Frale or according to custom? As is typical for the drive by media, this article blows in terms of detail. I can’t tell from that what Frale means. There is this, however:
“However, according to Prof Frale, study of the document shows that the knights were not heretics as had been believed for 700 years.”
“In fact she says “the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights... the document we have found absolves them”.”
Thus, it may have been that the pope realized they were NOT heretics and was obliged to ask for pardon for their convictions earlier for heresy. That still doesn’t mean that Clement doubted that they were guilty of heresy or other crimes when those supposed crimes were first revealed to him. Also, it was common to ask pardon of those who were condemned. Executioners, for instance, often asked pardon of those they were going to execute.
Oh, just your usual hedonistic revelry. You know, dancing nekkid around a bonfire...impregnating nubile virgins (or a reasonable facsimile thereof). Maybe stomp out a few crop circles before the night's over.
Nuthin' special.
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No Mason in his right mind should claim a direct connection with the Templars. The York Rite/Templar degrees of Freemasonry only emulate the ideals of which the Knights Templar were famous for.
And this Freemason will reserve any judgement of the Processus contra Templarios until he has had a chance to actually read it.
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