Posted on 09/26/2007 4:03:14 PM PDT by Stoat
The Rev. J. Gaston Hebert, Little Rock diocese administrator, speaks during a news conference Wednesday, Sept. 26, 2007, in Little Rock, Ark. Hebert announced Wednesday that six Arkansas nuns have been excommunicated from the Catholic Church for heresy. (AP Photo/Mike Wintroath)
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Six Catholic nuns have been excommunicated for heresy after refusing to give up membership in a Canadian sect whose founder claims to be the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary, the Diocese of Little Rock announced Wednesday.
The Rev. J. Gaston Hebert, the diocese administrator, said he notified the nuns of the decision Tuesday night after they refused to recant the teachings of the Community of the Lady of All Nations, also known as the Army of Mary.
The Vatican has declared all members of the Army of Mary excommunicated. Hebert said the excommunication was the first in the diocese's 165-year history.
"It is a painfully historic moment for this church," Hebert said.
The six nuns are associated with the Good Shepherd Monastery of Our Lady of Charity and Refuge in Hot Springs. Sister Mary Theresa Dionne, one of the nuns excommunicated, said the nuns will still live at the convent property, which they own.
"We are at peace and we know that for us we are doing the right thing," the 82-year-old nun said. "We pray that the church will open their eyes before it is too late. This is God's work through Mary, the blessed mother, and we're doing what we're asked to do."
At a news conference, Hebert said the nuns "became entranced and deluded with a doctrine that is heretical." He said church officials removed the sacraments from the monastery on Tuesday night.
Hebert said the sect's members believe that its founder, Marie Paule Giguere, is the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary and that God speaks directly through her.
Excommunication bars the nuns from participating in the church liturgy and receiving communion or other sacraments.
The diocese said the action was taken after the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a declaration that the Army of Mary's teachings were heretical and automatically excommunicated any who embraced the doctrine.
Hebert said the diocese had known for years that the nuns were following the sect and said church officials in the past had encouraged them to come back into the fold.
According to the Catholic News Service, the Army of Mary was founded in Quebec in 1971 by Giguere, who said she was receiving visions from God.
Dionne said she does not know if Giguere is the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary, but said she believes God communicates through the sect's founder.
"She is doing only what God and Mary tells her to do," Dionne said.
Calls made to a spokesman for the Army of Mary in Quebec were answered by a fax machine tone.
Why would there have to be?
The confessional is sealed. Cardinal Law cannot talk about what was said or done in the confessional, and Geoghan could have talked - but if he had been excommunicated I doubt he would have advertised it.
I continue to have great respect for the Catholic Church; but....
Catholics do indeed worship Mary. Catholics pray to Mary more often than to God Himself. Catholics pray to angels, and to dead humans that have achieved sainthood. Forgiveness is asked from, and granted by, a priest...a human priest!
All of these practiced traditions are extra-biblical.
The Church is a vital institution, and critical to the well-being of man-kind. I would defend it.
Furthermore, the Sacrament of confession is specifically Biblically based.
In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to "confess our sins to one another." Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God...it says confess your sins to one another.
In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to "men"...plural.
In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? "Jesus said to them, 'Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.'" How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him...so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins.
And, just in case they didn't get it, verses 22-23 say this, "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'"
Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn't expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?
The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest...it is God's power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.
I am not here to weaken another mans faith.
Please educate me on praying to Mary, angels, and saints.
“You can be forgiven for your sins, but not for heresy. - tom - Tom”
You cannot be forgiven for heresy?
I thought if heretics wanted to reconcile with the church they were welcome to as long as they renounced their heretical beliefs.
If any of these nuns come around in the future and give up these strange beliefs, aren’t they able to reconcile?
“Please educate me on praying to Mary, angels, and saints.”
I have had this conversation with many protestants, and it usually comes down to a difference of opinion concerning intercessory prayer.
Catholics believe that souls living with God in heaven intercede. That they can pray to God for us still here on earth.
To a catholic - the word “pray” is not necessarily worship unless it is occurring in adoration of God.
To “pray” can also be a request (as in the phrase “pray tell!”)
In that sense - I can ask you for prayer, and I can also ask prayer from the apostles - or from the mother of Jesus.
If catholics really thought Mary, angels, and saints were gods - we would come out and say so.
If you read the catechism you will see it simply isn’t so.
Catholics believe in one God made up of three persons - the Holy Trinity.
In fact - these women were excommunicated precisely because their beliefs are not part of the church’s teaching.
Well explained. Thank you for your patience, and interest.
Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn't expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?
Worth repeating. Well said. This is the classic proof-text for the sacrament. And, of course, Christians have been confessing their sins to priest since the earliest days of the Church.
The Didache"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).
The Letter of Barnabas
"You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).
Ignatius of Antioch
"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).
"For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop" (ibid., 8).
Irenaeus
"[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]).
Tertullian
"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).
Hippolytus
"[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command" (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).
What may be confusing you is the colloquialism of "praying to Mary." Your confusion is understandable. "Praying to Mary" means asking Mary to pray to God for us. This also applies to the phrase "praying to a saint." What we're actually doing is asking the saints in Heaven to pray to God for us. This activity is indicated in Scripture.
Revelation 5:8The phrase, "praying to St. X," derives from the archaic English meaning of "pray," which was "to ask," as in "pray thee tell," etc.And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Depends on who you talk to, doesn't it?
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to gain from this link. I'm guessing that this organization is promoting a bogus Marian apparition?
I don't know whether it's bogus or not. The Church will pronounce on that. Keep in mind that Catholics are not required to honor any private apparition, even apparitions that are recognized by the Church (i.e., Fatima, Lourdes).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a safe resource for normative Church teaching.
II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGINThe full catechetical teaching on Mary can be found here: Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church"971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517
The truth doesn't depend on who you ask. All one needs to do is look at history. List of Popes.
Scripturally, Mary is given a very special place. Not only was she the mother of Jesus, she facilited His first miracle at Cana, walked with him to Calvary, and remained at the foot of the cross until His death.
Here are jsut a few scriptural refererences to Mary and her speical qualities:
Luke 11:27, “As He said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!’ But He said, ‘Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!’”
Luke 1:38, “And Mary said, ‘Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.’”
Luke 1:45, “And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”
Also, to say, as some do, that Mary was just a plain woman is like saying the Ark of the Covenant was just another wooden box. The Ark of the Covenant was holy because it carried the stone version of the word of God. It was holy because it carried the manna that God had sent from Heaven. How much holier must Mary have been as the carrier of the word of God in the flesh?! As the carrier of the bread of life?! To what other woman was given the honor of being called “the mother of my Lord”? To what other woman did God ever say, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you”? What other woman ever bore God in her womb? What other woman was “overshadowed” by the Holy Spirit?
To say that Mary was “just a plain woman” is an insult to God and is just an absolutely ridiculous statement. Luke 1:41-42, ”...and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb!’” Luke 1:48, “For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.”
Yep, sounds like just any ol’ ordinary woman to me.
One of the most outlandish things that I’ve ever heard was that Mary was just an “incubator” for Jesus. That’s very scriptural, isn’t it?
Luke 1:43, “And why is this granted me, that the incubator of my Lord should come to me?”
Folks, to say that Mary – the daughter of the Father, the mother of the Son, and the spouse of the Holy Spirit – was just a “plain woman” is the height of absurdity. No other
Most folks say either 1 or 0. Look up sedevacantism.
Then there are:
Pope John-Gregory XVII
Pope Peter II (Manuel Alonso Corral)(Isn’t in confusing when they use the same name?)
Pope Peter II (Chester Olszewski)
Pope Peter II (Aimé Baudet)
Pope Peter II (Pierre Henri Bubois)
Pope Peter II (Maurice Archieri)
Pope Peter II (Julius Tischler)
Pope Peter II (William Kamm)
Pope Valerian I (Valeriano Vestini)
Pope Linus II
Pope Pius XIII
Pope Leo XIV
I’ll admit that I didn’t know that there were that many Popes until I started working on this post.
“Well explained. Thank you for your patience, and interest.”
no sweat.
It occurred to me a long time ago that people thought they were arguing over Mary-worship, and what they really arguing about was intercessory prayer.
“Calls made to a spokesman for the Army of Mary in Quebec were answered by a fax machine tone.”
Well then you are calling the fax machine you dolt.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.