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Polish leader honours massacred officers on Russia visit (see pictures)
AFP ^ | Sept. 17, 2007

Posted on 09/17/2007 11:24:17 AM PDT by lizol

Polish leader honours massacred officers on Russia visit

MOSCOW (AFP) — Poland's Lech Kaczynski on Monday made his first visit as president to Russia for highly charged commemorations for 22,500 Polish servicemen massacred by Soviet secret police in World War II.

The visit to Katyn in western Russia, where many of the killings happened, took place against a backdrop of heightened tensions between Poland and Russia since Kaczynski's rise to power in December 2005.

The visit took place on the anniversary of the Soviet invasion of eastern Poland in 1939, which occurred under a secret agreement between Soviet leader Joseph Stalin and Nazi German leader Adolf Hitler, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Together with victims' relatives, the Polish leader laid a wreathe and lit candles at burial sites of thousands of Polish officers, soldiers and civilians who were taken prisoner by the Red Army in 1939 then executed at Katyn forest, in Smolensk province near Russia's western border.

Kaczynski sounded a conciliatory note on relations with Russia, while also urging respect for the truth.

"The Soviet Union no longer exists. We have a new Russia. We should live for the future and consider the past with calm and wisdom, but also with respect for the truth," Kaczynski said, according to Polish news agency PAP.

"Today we should pay respect, we should preserve their memory. Historical memory, of what is good and of what is bad, is important. But this does not mean we want to feed only on this memory," he said.

Kaczynski took part in ceremonies both in a cemetery for Catholic victims and in another cemetery for Russian victims of Stalinist repression, a Polish embassy spokesman told AFP.

He was also to visit churches of the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox faiths.

Putin sent an envoy, Georgy Poltavchenko, in his place.

Although Katyn is the most famous massacre, there were many others in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine, bringing the total estimated number of Polish servicemen murdered by the Soviets in 1940 to 22,500. Most were shot in the head.

Commentators in both countries said Kaczynski's visit was partly aimed at rallying Polish voters ahead of early elections on October 21 at which the president's twin brother, Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, is fighting for his political survival.

But it also reflected continued Polish grievances.

Poland has demanded that Russia recognise the Katyn atrocity as a crime against humanity and has said that anyone responsible who remains alive should be prosecuted.

Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev only acknowledged Soviet responsibility for the massacre for the first time in 1990, ending decades of official Soviet propaganda lies that blamed Hitler's Germany.

However in September 2004, after a 14-year investigation, the Russian military prosecutor's office refused to acknowledge Katyn as either a war crime or a crime against humanity.

The visit comes amid a host of disputes between historical rivals Poland and Russia, ranging from a Russian ban on Polish meat imports to US plans to site interceptor missiles in Poland as part of a missile defence system.

The independent Russian newspaper Vremya Novostei commented caustically on Monday that "this isn't about an improvement in bilateral relations because Mr President is visiting Russia in order to recall the most painful page in history."

"For the dear Kaczynski brothers the symbolism is very relevant to their domestic political needs," namely the elections, the paper said.

As a new European Union member, Poland has urged fellow EU countries to take a tougher line on Russia, particularly in talks over a planned EU-Russia partnership accord.

Warsaw has also been reasserting its historical influence in Belarus, the country that separates Poland from Russia and that is viewed by Moscow as its sphere of influence.

On Friday Belarus sentenced four army officers charged with spying for Poland to between seven and 10 years in jail.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: katyn; poland; russia; soviet
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To: EMT; RusIvan; pobeda1945
Here you have some articles in Russian related to Katyn

Katyn'ski labirynt

Katyn budet rasdelyat' wsyegda

O Katyni dvadtstat' let nazad i segodnya

Rosstryel w Katyni

Katynskii sait

Pravda o Katyni

And here is one about Soviet POW's in Polish camps

Plyennye krasnoarmieytsy w polskih lagerah
41 posted on 09/18/2007 11:29:15 AM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: pobeda1945

“OK where are the rest 30-60.000 Russian POWs?”

Give yourself a chance and read the articles, that I provided links to - both in English and in Russian.


42 posted on 09/18/2007 11:31:20 AM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: EMT
Yes. And I know WHY ;)

Because you're scum.

L

43 posted on 09/18/2007 11:35:18 AM PDT by Lurker ( Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing smallpox to ebola.)
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To: lizol
"Today we should pay respect, we should preserve their memory. Historical memory, of what is good and of what is bad, is important. But this does not mean we want to feed only on this memory," he said.

Wise words.

And an anathema to those who thrive in today's PC environment, unfortunately.

44 posted on 09/18/2007 11:38:50 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: pobeda1945
Why would NKVD use German pistols with German bullets to kill Poles?

The ammo used by NKVD in Katyn was Geco bullets, made actually by a German Genschow company. Before WW2 that ammo (just like German made Walther pistols also used in Katyn) were exported to Poland and USSR.

During the US Congress Katyn hearings (http://www.conservativeclassics.com/books/Katynbk/BK07.PDF) Mr. Genschow testified about ammo as follows:

Mr. GENSCHOW. The cartridges of the shells of this pistol ammunition carried, since the year 1933-34, the word "Geco" on the bottom of the shell, and underneath the "Geco" was "7.65".
Question. Can 7.65 ammunition of the type manufactured by this firm be used in various hinds and makes of pistols?
Mr. GENSCHOW. Yes, it could; because it was a standard type cartridge which could be used in very many different makes of pistols.
Question. Was it used internationally by various nations, police, or armed forces, in pistols?
Mr. GENSCHOW. Yes certainly.
Question. Did this firm ever export pistol ammunition of the caliber 7.65 to Eastern Europe?
Mr. GENSCHOW. Yes; that is the case.

45 posted on 09/18/2007 11:51:59 AM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: RusIvan
I must admit I don't get why it's so funny?
And why "The correspondent of AFP needs to have the some geography lessons". Maybe you should take some?

If Katyn is located in Smolensk Region (precisely 19 km west of Smolensk), then it's not western Russia???



Dude, if your knowledge of history is just like the one of geography, then I don't wonder anymore why you post such a BS here.
46 posted on 09/18/2007 12:30:32 PM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: lizol

The funny thing is that you provide them with tons of reading,whereas they just say “no, the truth is different” without even proving this.
But I think your hard work is fully appreciated by people other then those brainwashed revisionist.


47 posted on 09/18/2007 1:35:56 PM PDT by Verdelet (Defensor Patriae!)
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To: lizol

Waste of time to discuss with them, they will always call white to be black. Red svolocz.


48 posted on 09/18/2007 1:44:02 PM PDT by Lukasz
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To: Lukasz

Are guys are full of ... emotions. And I can understand this. You are overhelmed by your potato-bros propaganda. Anyway, it is difficult to ignore facts:
1. German pistols of THREE DIFFERENT CALIBERS
2. German ropes
3. Abrupt stop of German investigations in 1942
4. Numerous evidence from locals that execution was performed by Germans
5. Medical expertise and exgumation by Dr. Burdenko stating that killing took place in 1941 (i.e. by Germans)
6. Discovery of documents on bodies dated aug-sep 1941 (Smolensk was occupied by Nazis by this time)

Body of evidence agaisnt your version is growing every day but of course thinking is difficult and truth is not welcomed in Poland. It is easier to scream and whine and blame Russia for everything and ask, and beg for COMPENSATION.


49 posted on 09/18/2007 2:23:38 PM PDT by pobeda1945
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To: pobeda1945
Blah, blah, blah...

By posting such BS you place yourself in line with those, who say, that holocaust actually has never happened and Auschwitz actually was a spa, or that Poles started WW2 by attacking radio Station in Gliwice (Gleiwitz), etc., etc.

Pathetic.

50 posted on 09/18/2007 3:01:33 PM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: pobeda1945
and ask, and beg for COMPENSATION.

And this is obviously what really hurts you.

But don't worry - no one in Poland is asking, demanding nor begging for compensation.

The only thing we're asking for is TRUTH.

But I understand, that this is a notion being totally unknown to you guys out there.
51 posted on 09/18/2007 3:12:22 PM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: pobeda1945

“Body of evidence agaisnt your version is growing every day but of course thinking is difficult and truth is not welcomed in Poland. It is easier to scream and whine and blame Russia for everything and ask, and beg for COMPENSATION.”

Then why the hell Gorbachov and Jelcyn said that it was Russians who did it?
Why did they gave only few documents if they have nothing to hide?
Tell me one more thing...
How the hell do you know what happend since Pravda newspaper sold in years 39-40 is still classified?

You are just like your president, contestating the truth without any proves. Lately he claimed that Ribbentrop - Molotov pact was only a non-aggression pact.

“4.Numerous evidence from locals that execution was performed by Germans”

Give me a break, when polish scientists were in Katyn they wanted to talk with people living there, but they couldn’t, cause troops with AK-47 didn’t let them.

“5. Medical expertise and exgumation by Dr. Burdenko stating that killing took place in 1941 (i.e. by Germans)”

Burdenko was a commie, he would claim that Germans killed Jesus Christ if he was ordered to by his supervisor. You can’t trust anyone who has 3 Orders of Lenin.


52 posted on 09/18/2007 11:22:12 PM PDT by Verdelet (Defensor Patriae!)
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To: lizol

Why Vox_PL do not know your ref about soviet POWs? I told him about 20 thousand of ded POWs in polish camps. He calls it the propaganda. Seem like he needs your education.


53 posted on 09/19/2007 6:31:34 AM PDT by RusIvan (It is amazing how easily those dupes swallow the supidiest russophobic fairy tales:))))
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To: lizol

If Katyn is located in Smolensk Region (precisely 19 km west of Smolensk), then it’s not western Russia???==

Indeed Katyn is in Russia, my mistake. But then how come your “duck” happened to be in Russia? I never heard he was ever invited?


54 posted on 09/19/2007 6:34:17 AM PDT by RusIvan (It is amazing how easily those dupes swallow the supidiest russophobic fairy tales:))))
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To: RusIvan
Kaczynski took part in ceremonies both in a cemetery for Catholic victims and in another cemetery for Russian victims of Stalinist repression, a Polish embassy spokesman told AFP.

He was also to visit churches of the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox faiths.

Putin sent an envoy, Georgy Poltavchenko, in his place.


Either Putin doesn't know what's going on in his country, or those those idiots from Kremlin failed to inform you about this event. (sarcasm)

Damn! How dare they?!
55 posted on 09/19/2007 9:09:55 AM PDT by lizol (Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)
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To: pobeda1945
Abrupt stop of German investigations in 1942

Why would the Germans be "investigating" their own mass murders? Were there German "investigations" at Treblinka and Belzec? Hardly. Coverups, yes; investigations, no.

Nice attempt at historical revisionism. You have one thing going for you, at least ... for every Pole the NKVD murdered, they murdered a thousand or more Soviet citizens.

The USSR is the greatest mass murder conspiracy in the history of mankind.

56 posted on 09/19/2007 9:27:07 AM PDT by Campion
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To: lizol

those those idiots from Kremlin failed to inform you about this event. (sarcasm)==

Lizol believe me I heared not about such event. There were no information about it on TV news and papers during last 2 weeks to now. I do not say that I rigorously watch news each day but I thought that such event as the Kazynski visit should be covered. I see the EuroNews channel each morning when I gather to go to work but I didn’t see nothing about this on it either.


57 posted on 09/20/2007 4:08:01 AM PDT by RusIvan (It is amazing how easily those dupes swallow the supidiest russophobic fairy tales:))))
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