Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #4 - Des Moines, IA 08/05/07 - Official Discussion Thread

ABC

[CounterCounterCulture]

Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #4 – Des Moines, Iowa 08/05/07 - Official Discussion Thread

ABC News will be conducting a debate to be aired on This Week. The nine announced GOP presidential candidates meet in a campaign debate at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa. George Stephanopoulos is the moderator; Des Moines Register political writer David Yepsen poses additional questions. Debate starts at 8 am CT (9 am ET/ 6 am PT) * check local stations for broadcast time in your area *

Candidates participating

• Sam Brownback
• Rudy Giuliani
• Mike Huckabee
• Duncan Hunter
• John McCain
• Mitt Romney
• Ron Paul
• Tom Tancredo
• Tommy Thompson

[padre35]

There is Al Quida in Iraq right now, and that makes retreat unacceptable.

I wouldn’t call Al Quida bullies, they are more barracks theifs that know how to use explosives and cut off faces with piano wires.

I don’t think Dr. Paul “gets” that fact, for all of his acumen on other things, he is quite dense about this reality, we cannot sit back in “Fortress America” trying to paly goalie to a swarm of angry hornets, we have to destroy their nests.

[George W. Bush]

Currently (having done my duty as a Paulbot):

Who do you think won the Republican debate?
Ron Paul	3,503
Mike Huckabee	631
Mitt Romney	576
Rudy Giuliani	432
Nobody won. I'm voting Democratic.	366
Tom Tancredo	188
John McCain	142
Nobody. I'm waiting for Fred Thompson or Newt Gingrich to enter the race.	116
Duncan Hunter	51
Tommy Thompson	39
Sam Brownback	27
Total Vote:	6071

51 39 27 6,071

[The Pack Knight]

I missed the first bit, but I pretty much agree with your assessment. Frankly, these debates help show why, for good or (mostly) ill, the frontrunners are the frontrunners, and why the rest are the rest.

If I was solely going by debate performance to-date, my vote would be for Rudy. He and Romney both turn in the best performances, but Rudy just seems far more down-to-earth. Rudy's policy positions on several key issues mean I can't support him, but aside from that he seems like the best potential nominee on the floor. I'll add the caveat that I don't particularly care about his marital history, and care even less about photos of him in drag. My one real gripe with his performance was his hammering of the word "liberal Democrat" into his answers, in an MTDPTM* attempt to distinguish himself from other liberals. His answer on tax reform was just weak, too, saying that he'd go with a flat tax or the FairTax if we were just "starting out", but that it's just too big and complicated a change to do now. That's like saying the best reason to keep shooting heroin is that you're addicted to heroin.

Romney's just as polished as he has been, and, like you said, made the most politically adroit statements designed to please the base. He probably helped himself here.

McCain did well enough, and showed some humor, as he needed to do. He seemed a bit shaky on some questions, though, and went back to the "make them famous" line he's already overused. He did well enough to stay a frontrunner if he still was one, but not well enough to keep his campaign from continuing to bleed to death.

You're pretty much right on the rest. Though I think Huckabee did better than you say. He seems the most natural of the "rest", and seemed like he was talking to the audience rather than at them. That's a great skill to have, and hey, it might even mean you're being honest, though it is a skill shared by another former Arkansas Governor. Evidently Fox News' focus group shared my opinion, since I see that Huckabee was the winner there.

Brownback just comes off as a spaced-out phony to me, and I wish he'd just make himself scarce as Gilmore has done. I actually didn't notice Gilmore wasn't there and had to check the roster.

Maybe I missed one of Hunter's better answers, but frankly, I've been very disappointed with him in the debates. He seems more even and direct than the other candidates, but when you've seen more than one debate or TV appearance, you realize it's because he's spouting the same soundbites every time. Now, I know he can do better than this, since I've heard him on the radio, but this is getting embarrassing. Maybe he's assuming no one would actually watch more than one debate, but I expect more out of a candidate so many Freepers seem to love.

Tancredo is the opposite. He's shaky in just about every answer, but at least he seems to think about and answer every question. You don't hear him reusing many lines. As much as I sympathise with the Jack Wheeler "Nuke Mecca" solution sometimes, it's not going to help Tom's chances much.

Tommy Thompson really isn't cut out for the television era, and it's not just because of his looks. Ron Paul pleased his core constituency, but isn't going to win over any fence-sitters with this performance. We like to hear about the Constitution, but we also want to hear about what you're actually going to do as President. The last I heard, the Constitution doesn't allow the President to unilaterally eliminate large portions of the Federal government. He loves to cite Bob Taft, who sounded great right up until December 7, 1941.

Anyway, long-story-short, this debate will do nothing but reinforce the current status quo vis-a-vis the polls, save maybe bump Huckabee out of the toilet where he is now.

* Methinks Thou Dost Protest Too Much

[RasterMaster]

Nice try, but anyone who supports cut and run in the middle of a war is less than a man.

[fetal heart beats by 21st day]

Absolutely.

They only reinforce my assessment by their actions.

I’m glad Congressman Hunter got to make a strong closing statement, though.

[codercpc]

I am already sooo sick of having to watch Rooty. Run Fred run!

At least "Rooty" has the courage of his convictions (no you do not have to agree with any of them) to stand up there with the others and actually debate the issues. Along with others that may or may not be our candidate in the end.

If Fred actually wanted the Presidency, instead of others that want him for it, maybe he would have timed his entrance into the race a little better. I don't think that it is fair to the actual candidates that took the time to stand up there to have the public ignore them, and their answers in favor of someone who is "testing the waters".

[fetal heart beats by 21st day]

Oh, but don’t you know?

The water is very warm...warm....warm...

And, whatever question you have, the answer is..

“You know, that’s a very complicated issue...”

[jrooney]

"sooo sick of having to watch Rooty."

Boy that Ron Paul sure has a John Wayne like swagger about him and oozes strength and courage, huh? No just kidding, he looked more like an old person that has wandered away from his care home and does not know where he is. Feeble and naive are the qualities he illuminated.

[CenTexConfederate]

You really are confused. .

Old School Republicans don’t believe in attacking nations that haven’t attacked us. Bush ran on such a foreign policy in 2000. A more humble foreign policy. Then 9/11 and instead of focusing on the real enemy Osama, he launched his global crusade for Democracy. No one on that stage today supported such nonsense.

It’s time to bring the troops home from Europe, Japan, and Korea. Begin a phased withdraw up the Kurd north.

End all foreign aid. Enough of billions down the drain

[Laverne]

I watched part of the debate and thought that Rudy, Mitt and McCain all did well; I liked Rudy’s response to the “mistakes” question and I didn’t realize that Steponallufus’s father was a priest.

Tancredo, Paul and Thompson need to get out.

I like Huckabee, but I thought he was kind of flat today. I did like how Thompson got in the dig at the media about how they would report the commends on the health care issue. And the slap at the guy asking the questions, who was not stephie, about how his question was based on liberal democrat principles regarding tax increases. I’m glad to see out candidates start taking on the media.

Loved Mitt’s comment about Obama; got some real good laughs.

[freespirited]

* Romney the frontrunner, clearly targeted by Stephi using Brownback's ads as proxy, deflected well. Romney got a great line in bashing Obama, made a challenge to RP's foreign policy ("What about 9/11?").
* McCain did well enough, conventional Republican policies, maybe a little closer to the Maverick he used to play.
* Julie-Annie did pretty well in the debate overall. He did take a few abortion/sodomy hits, otherwise emphasized governance and defense issues. I hate to say it but he did well for himself overall.
* Huckabee did well enough, steady performer, but I don't see him helping his standing much today.
* Senator Switchback's attack calls on Romney's changed abortion position) was hard-hitting initially but but I think Mitt deflected it reasonably well. Switchback went pro-life and whole-life. His foreign policy on a three-state solution and the failure of the Iraqi legislature was well-taken but countered by someone else pointing out that a federalism solution utilizing the 21 subdivisions of Iraq ("states") was the right solution.
* Duncan Hunter did pretty well on defense but like Huckabee didn't really help himself.
* Tommy Thompson didn't do well overall but had a few moments.
* Tancredo was okay but made no headway. He defended his nuke-Mecca policy and pounded the State Department, then got pounded by other candidates (Thompson, I think).
I was disappointed with Ron Paul's performance. You can't turn a policy forum into a constitutional debate.
Strongest performers: Giuliani and Romney, possibly McStain

Very good summary. I think the view of McCrazy depended on whether one has seen his previous performances. Those who did may have felt some of his comments were his usual rehearsed lines and been less impressed. With Brownback, I just think there is something nonverbal about the guy that says not ready for prime time. Can't quite put my finger on what it is, but have sensed it before and it was there again this morning. I'd say best performers were Mitt, Rudy and Duncan.

[Laverne]

Oh yes, Brownback needs to get out of the race also.

[EQAndyBuzz]

“Get enough of us feverish fringers upriled, and we can.”

You are right. You can. And you should. But you don’t or you won’t.

Immigration was our opportunity to take back our party from the RINO’s. Yet we chose to be content with winning a battle. Sorry, this is a war. It is a war about political ideology and moral devotion. Both taken away from us by liberals calling themselves Republicans.

While I am more moderate than most on this forum, I will be the first to say that Conservatism is the only thing that will save this country from moral and ethical decay.

If we really, really want it, we cannot sit back in the shadows and toss bombs every now and then. We have to follow it up. It might be time to be a third party. Maybe call ourselves the Constitution Party. Independents will then get to choose if they want to live in a police state under the nanny liberals or live the way they should live, by enjoying life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness given to them by our Constitution and God.

God assigned us the unenviable task of ensuring that people live their lives according to their own beliefs. Laws were given to us to protect the people from state control.

Unfortunately, we are losing our ability to ensure the “Unalienable Rights” of our citizenry because of criminals posing as politicians who want to subdue us with laws designed to prevent individual growth and responsibility.

Sorry for the rant.

[Xenalyte]

I mean how in the world does Tommy Thompson (who was my Gov, and I have supported for years) or Ron Paul beat Duncan Hunter in Iowa?

Since you've been seeing Thompson for years, perhaps you can answer us this: does he always seem so stiff?

My husband noticed today that Thompson almost never moves his body, only his head. He's like a carved body with a real head stuck on top with a stick.

[The Pack Knight]

Sorry, it was a question asked of the candidates during the debate. The answers were pretty much what we expect. I'm sure there will be a transcript of the answers somewhere soon, but the short version is: Huckabee gave a pretty good answer for it, and Tancredo mentioned that he was a cosponsor. Brownback talked about his Alternative Flat Tax, McCain dodged by saying he wanted to get rid of the AMT. Romney wants to go slow with tax reform, starting by eliminating tax on "Savings", which I assume is the capital gains tax, but hopefully includes more. Rudy's answer was essentially that while the FairTax or the flat tax would be better, and that they'd be best if we were just "starting out", it would be too hard on the economy to make such a radical change.

I don't think Hunter, Paul, or Thompson were asked, though I might have just forgotten.

[lfrancis]

I agree very good summary. Missed the most important point though.
Mrs. Romney was in the audience. I think she got more coverage than Tancredo.

[Xenalyte]

Nice try yourself, but “cut and run” is Giuliani’s portrayal of Paul’s position.

If you want to drink the punch Giuliani is ladling, that’s your lookout.

[ClarenceThomasfan]

Bottom line: Our GOP candidates are head and shoulders above the Democratic candidates. I could support any one of those on that Iowa stage today (except Ron Paul) and I could support those off the stage (Fred and Newt).

When you measure up the executive experience and military records of the Republican candidates to the Democrat candidates, there is no contest. Our side is 10 times better.

[Reagan Man]

>>>>>At least "Rooty" has the courage of his convictions ... If Fred actually wanted the Presidency ...

Since Fred Thompson has made noise about possibly running for POTUS, Giuliani's support has significantly dropped off. In a few cases, FredT even leads Rooty. Fact is, Thompson has had a positive impact on the GOP nomination process and that is good news. After all, priority #1 is to make sure Giuliani is not the nominee.

No reason for FredT to enter the race when he doesn't have to. Who knows, maybe he'll never make it official and just keep pissing off you RudyBoosters. LOL

[codercpc]

To tell you the truth, when Tommy was the Gov here, most of his public appearances that I saw him at were more one on one. He is truly on of the most “down home” mid west guys you ever want to meet. I remember a few appearances where he was drunker than a skunk, but he was always so loveable that nobody seemed to mind. We also went from a welfare state to becoming the nations leading welfare to work state. And he was behind that. Since he went “national” he has changed. He is stiff, and funny looking, but for the small town Wisconsin he fit right in.