Keep the battle flag out of the Capitol

The Roanoke Times ^ | 29 July 2007 | Christian Trejbal

[Rebeleye]

The Confederate battle flag used to hang in the old House chamber...next to the speaker's chair with the flags of Virginia, the United States... The battle flag is also a symbol of hatred and racism...Racism and slavery now are inextricably interwoven into the battle flag's fabric...The flag also symbolizes rebellion, insurrection and even treason.

[Zeon Cowboy]

I don’t came about heritage. That flag has no place in a federal building.

[stainlessbanner]

Lincoln upholds the right to revolution in 1848. Toombs and Lee consider the conflict to be "revolution", though the definition of revolution includes "overthrow" of government. The CSA did not seek to overthrow any political body.
Regardless, your position supports the theory that Lincoln wanted war.

Conversely, had Lincoln sought political discourse as a means to end (or avert) the conflict, he would have accepted the South Carolina delegation and opened discussions. Instead he refused any negotiations with the delegation holding them in contempt. He allowed Fox to reinforce Sumter, knowing full-well this would be the spark to ignite a war.

I suggest the mark of a true statesman is that of Reagan who brought down the Berlin Wall and ended the Cold War through diplomacy and negotiation.

[slow5poh]

no doubt slavey was one cause of the war. However, I think in the long run states rights turned out to be More important, as we are all SLAVES to the federal government now.

[slow5poh]

“I don’t came about heritage. That flag has no place in a federal building.”

Unless I read the story wrong it’s a state building, and not a federal one. So, they have every right to display that flag. The men from the south were Christian men who died for what they thought was right. I think they should fly the confederate flag from every state building in the south. To bad if you, morris dees, or the naacp don’t like it. There’s alot more important issues facing our country today than this.

[Rabble]

"Not only does the Constitution make no provision for secession, ....."

Secession is NOT banned by the Constitution, neither!

As you well know it is a right retained by the states by the 10th amendment.

[Vietnam Vet From New Mexico]

True, but there is also nothing in the Constitution prohibiting secession.

When the Constitution was ratified, several states, north and south, has clauses in their adoption resolutions that stated that they reserved the right to leave if things did not work out. Congress accepted those ratifications.

[stainlessbanner]

That flag has no place in a federal building.

Ike kept a portrait of General Lee on his desk in the Oval Office.

This article is about the Virginia State Capitol building, not the US Capitol.

[slow5poh]

thanks you stainless, it’s a STATE capitol, not a federal building.

BTW, if you go to the site that has the article look at the poll results. 96% of almost 500 people so far have voted that it should stay.

[stainlessbanner]

Good comments all
There used to be a strong northern state's rights tradition. Read on:

Examples of Secession

• 1798-99 Virginia and Kentucky Resolves. Said states could nullify national law if they violated individual state rights!
• 1804, Massachusetts plotted to secede and tried to get New York to withdraw from the union and establish a "Northern Confederacy".
• 1807 Embargo Act New Jersey was going to secede due prohibition of foreign trade
• In 1814, delegates from several New England states threatened to secede over President James Madison's war policies against England.
• In 1844, the Massachusetts Legislature threatened secession when Congress started debating whether to admit Texas into the Union.

Here are some other quotes from influential leaders

1. Abraham Lincoln endorsed secession: "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable -- a most sacred right -- a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world." (1848)
   
2. The Declaration of Independence clearly states that governments are institutions that can be defined as "deriving their power from the consent of the governed."
   
3. Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence also stated: Whenever "any Form of Government becomes destructive" of the inalienable rights granted by the Creator, "it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government."
   
4. Alexander Stephens in his "A Constitutional View of the Late War Between the States," submitted, the central government, the common agent of the people of the states, is legitimate only so long as it exercises its delegated powers within the bounds established by the people through the Constitution.

[Rabble]

"Looking at what Lincoln said, he was upholding the right of revolution, not a right of secession under the US Constitution."

"Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit."

This sounds Exactly like secession to me! Would you like to clarify?

[puroresu]

Douglas Wilder is a left-wing Democrat, so no doubt he’s not very high on Confederate displays.

Would you say that a reasonable way to decide this issue would be to submit it to the voters of Virginia? Ditto for similar flag controversies in South Carolina, Georgia, and elsewhere?

In another post, you asked if more moderate conservatives such as Bush, McCain, and others are out to replace Old Glory. The answer, of course, is no. They aren’t out to replace Old Glory. But conservatives of their type could very well end up helping to bring such an outrage into being.

The 1965 Immigration Bill was supported by a majority of congressional Republicans. None of them intended to create a multicultural, balkanized America filled with millions and millions of illegal aliens demanding welfare and amnesty. But they helped bring it about because they were too cowardly to vote no. Everywhere they looked, there was a Democrat, a “civil rights” activist, or a liberal news reporter, screaming “racist! racist! racist!” at anyone who opposed the 1965 act. So they mostly voted for it, enabling it to pass. They surely had to know that bill was a nation destroyer, but they all went back to their districts and said it was only a modest proposal, and that Ted Kennedy assured them it wouldn’t alter the nation’s demographics.

Over in Britain, Enoch Powell was a rising star in the Tory Party. One day he went to the floor in Parliament and gave a speech warning that massive immigration from the Third World would lead to violence and bloodshed. Labor Party members and liberal news reporters howled “racist! racist! racist!”. Powell didn’t back down, but his conservative allies did. They denounced him, endorsed bringing in a ton of Muslims, and the rest is history.

The race card is the most virulent tool the left has, and they use it very aggressively and very successfully. It takes a very brave individual to resist it. Do I think moderate conservatives WANT to scrap Old Glory or purge our Founding Fathers? No. But do I think they’d vote for allegedly modest proposals knowing that they COULD lead to those results a decade or two down the road? Damn right, they would, if the sponsors of those “modest” proposals are jabbing their fingers in their faces and screaming that anyone who votes no is a racist. They’d vote for the proposal, and quietly hope against hope that the left will be satisfied and won’t use the precedent to launch an attack on Old Glory or James Madison.

All I can say to those “moderate” conservatives is, good luck! They’re gonna need it.

[slow5poh]

very good post.

[puroresu]

Love it!!!!!

[puroresu]

Thanks. Sadly, our history in recent decades is filled with examples of Republicans voting for disasterous proposals because they were afraid the New York Times or Dan Rather would call them “racist” or some other name if they didn’t. They knew those proposals were disasterous, but they voted for them, crossed their fingers, and hoped that everything would work out and the disaster predicted by the few stalwart conservatives who voted “no” wouldn’t come about.

These attacks on Confederate heroes and symbols fit right into this category.

[Dixie Yooper]

The fort was on southern land that did not belong to the union

After a good night's sleep, this is as good of a place as any to jump back into it...

The fort was indeed on southern land. The fact your overlooking is that it was THE SOUTH that belonged and still belongs to the UNION. Thomas Jefferson got the entire country whipped up on Manifest Destiny, and a county that spreads from sea to shinning sea. We had just finished kicking Mexico's butt back across the Rio Grande and were not about to put up with 1/3 of the states wanting out.

[Non-Sequitur]

Yes, because all southerners were yokels back then right?

That seems to be what you're saying when you state your belief that Lincoln tricked them into firing on Sumter. The fact is that Davis knew exactly what his attack would mean but he did it anyway.

[Non-Sequitur]

When we rebelled against england we fired on there militery forts! And we didn’t offer to reimburse them either.

But we knew that we were starting a war. We didn't act all huffy and shocked when the British fired back.

[Non-Sequitur]

Lincoln refused to meet with South Carolina’s mediators to discuss the situation at Sumter; Lincoln and his handlers knew what would happen when discussions fail: War.

Lincoln wasn't president when South Carolina was on its own. And by the time Lincoln was, the South wasn't talking about paying for anything. They were demanding recognition and making vague offers to talk about 'subjects of interest to both countries'. If paying for anything was of interest to the confederacy they would have made the offer before seizing anything.

[Non-Sequitur]

When the Constitution was ratified, several states, north and south, has clauses in their adoption resolutions that stated that they reserved the right to leave if things did not work out. Congress accepted those ratifications.

Turns out they were wrong.

[BuffaloJack]

Christians use a cross as a symol of their faith, Jews use the star of David. The swastika has been the symbol of Buddist faith for 2500 years. It is unfortunate that Hitler adopted the same symbol and gave it the meaning most people assume today.
The Confederate Battle flag was never a symbol of racism until the 1960s, when it too was adopted and used by racist organizations.
The Confederate Battle Flag wasn’t ever even officially ratified by the CSA like the Stars and Bars were. The Battle Flag was chosen in the days after the First Battle of Bull Run (Manassas). During that battle, both sides wore blue uniforms and because the day was breezeless and the flags stood limp, they couldn’t tell which side was which from the flags either. Errors were made, Union troops fired on Union troops, Confederates fired on Confederates and things were a real mess.
After the battle a short overnight truce was held between the combatants to discuss the problems. It was agreed that the South would wear a different color than the Union and adopt a battle flag. A dozen or more designs were examined and the one chosen is the one we now call the Confederate Battle Flag. By the way, the design was suggested by a yankee.