Posted on 07/14/2007 10:33:34 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Madonna and Bon Jovi are no match for Hawaiian flies when it comes to karaoke hits at the University of Nebraska State Museum in Lincoln. In a popular exhibit activity, visitors attempt to mimic the unique courtship calls of different species of Hawaiian Drosophila, a group of 800 different flies that may have evolved from a single species.
Fly karaoke is part of "Explore Evolution," a permanent exhibit currently at Nebraska and five other museums in the Midwest and Southwest...that explores evolutionary concepts in new ways. Such an activity is a far cry from the traditional way science museums have presented evolution, which usually included charts called phylogenies depicting ancestral relationships or a static set of fossils arranged chronologically. "Explore Evolution'' has those, too—and then some, because museum curators came to realize that they needed better ways to counter growing attacks on their integrity.
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Under pressure from these kinds of groups, the Kansas State Board of Education in 2005 approved a curriculum that allowed the public schools to include completely unfounded challenges to the theory of evolution.
In an effort to make their case to the public, creationists raised $26 million in private donations to build the 50,000-square-foot Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., which opened in late May. The institution presents the biblical history of the universe. Visitors learn that biblically, dinosaurs are best explained as creatures that roamed Earth with humans. In its first month of existence, the museum drew over 49,000 visitors, according to its Web site.
"Explore Evolution," funded by a $2.8 million grant from the National Science Foundation, is one of many recent efforts by science museums to counter such resistance to evolution...
(Excerpt) Read more at sciam.com ...
The key mechanism proposed for evolution is mutations. Macroevolution requires many decreases in entropy. There are four main types of mutations: duplications, substitutions, additions, and deletions. Of the four, only deletions have a clear way of increasing the entropy of the surroundings. When a deletion results from radiation a particle of DNA can be sent flying. The other three have no apparent way of increasing the entropy of the surroundings, so a decrease in entropy by any of these mutations would seem to violate the 2nd law.What bunk. Any scientifically literate person knows that he ongoing chemical reactions of life, including the ones that lead to these changes, must "[increase] the entropy of the surroundings" because they are irreversible.
There is no apparent mechanism for the evolutionary origin of life and so there is no way of showing how it could decrease the surrounding entropy. In the apparent absence of a mechanism that meets the above conditions, it is reasonable to conclude that the evolutionary origin of life would violate the 2nd law.Only a creationist would consider that a reasonable conclusion.
Then ndt’s claim to know the truth is pointless as well and so would *living in reality*.
Um, you think I was referencing a sceince point?... I was stating that science teaches us non-scientists about coming to ‘final’ conclusions prematurely.
That one’s on my profile page because it’s so ‘to the point’ don’tchaknow.
One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This states that as time goes by, entropy in an environment will increase. Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it [emphasis added]. Source.
Seems the author made one small mistake. He forgot about THE SUN!
This post was awarded FSTDT! Post of the Year for 2005 (scroll down to the fourth entry).
This post was awarded FSTDT! Post of the Year for 2005 (scroll down to the fourth entry).
looks like a typical lefty site. Thanks for showing your true colors.
What, didn't you understand the science behind the post?
Or, do you consider pointing out gross inaccuracies in a post purporting to deal with science to be a leftie trait?
I consider knowing something about science, and pointing out junk science wherever it occurs, to be conservative traits. Sorry you don't agree.
I have to spend $6000 this month on lowering my house's entrophy. Dry rot.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a law of physics that requires that the entropy of system cannot decrease unless the entropy of its environment increases by a greater amount. That is all it states.
Please name a process required by evolution would cause a decrease of entropy in a closed system not compensated for by an increase in the entropy of its surroundings, because I am at loss to think of one or find one.
If you disagree that this is what the 2nd Law states, please direct me to a reliable physics source that explains other generalizable consequences of the 2nd Law, because I am not aware of any, nor can I find any on my own.
But, But, the sun shining on it should keep it from rotting, since the sun prevents entropy.
I would say so, yes . . . .
Uh . . . that's assuming a pointless existence.
Welcome to FR. You join today and hop on a crevo thread for your first and only post? What was your previous screenname?
Simply pouring energy at a system doesn’t automatically decrease entropy. Work needs to be done and energy is used in that. So what is it that is causing the work to be done? What is life? Why does it get to sometimes violate the 2nd law?
You have got to be kidding! The post I cited was honored with it's award for a reason. Are you trying for the 2007 award?
Lets try an analogy. You admitted to a degree in meteorology or some such.
Where does the energy that creates weather systems, tornadoes, hurricanes and the like, come from?
With entropy as the guiding principle, they should not be able to form. They should violate the second law of thermodynamics just as you claim life does. Everything should be headed downhill!
But that's not correct! Entropy works on a large scale, allowing local events, such as hurricanes and life, to go in the opposite direction for a time, while the overall system follows the 2nd law.
I can't believe you don't understand this! This is basic science, not even grad level stuff.
Thanks for the ping!
No one suggested the sun prevents entropy. The surroundings of a system can increase in entropy while the system itself decreases in entropy, without violating any law of thermodynamics. This happens all the time.
Perhaps you could try describing what process required by evolution would cause a decrease of entropy in a closed system not compensated for by an increase in the entropy of its surroundings.
In a narrow sense that is true. But it has broader implications.
My example was of an "open system". If one were to decrease the total entropy of a system (my rotting house for example) it must allow for a piercing of the closed system from time to time in-order to bring in directed energy from outside the system. Thus my house is a closed system only if I encase it in a vacuum chamber and never perform maintenance on it.
The second law as it relates to evolution is that life systems require directed energy from outside to survive. Otherwise they tend to maximum entropy. Thus it can't be closed and survive indefinitely.
A herd of cows in a closed system will eventually decompose into random atoms.
But with an injection of directed energy from outside the system, the herd can be renewed.
The thing missing from some of the ToE arguments regarding the second law, is that it can't explain how life can develop without directed energy (energy guided by information) in a closed universe. Without significant "hand waving".
The only quasi logical explanation is had when one assumes the parallel and/or infinite universe hypothesis. Then a case for evolution sans an intelligent prime mover gains a fig leaf of plausibility.
metdad!
DNA probably. some of it has crashed in you but may not show up until you’re in your fifties, or may not show up at all. Took a college intro class in Life Science (AKA evolution) and it was a lot of chance. Lots and lots of chance. Co-evolution was the least logical of all. Mutations have not been shown to be constructive, but destructive. The theory of evolution does not apply to the individual but to the species as a whole, so Darwin said. So therefore, the DNA was pre-existent, for the species to evolve.
Creationists listen. God created the world the same way we get ready for dinner guests. First, the week before you clean the house. Then you plan the meal. then you plan the table, furnishings, then you shop. Then you prepare the house,(extra chairs, etc, new furnishings out). Then the day before you BUY THE FLOWERS (evolutionists cannot explain the emergence of flowers-they all showed up last, right before man!), and prepare some of the food. the day of the dinner, you do all the final preps and cook. etc, etc. Sounds like God was preparing the world for man. What I would like to do someday is use the Bible to come up with true families. The evolutionary tree cannot be used for true research because the basis of the theory of evolution is false. Creationists must use creation as a basis for scientific research and make the knowledge we have been given useful. God gave us this info for some reason, not just to glorify Him, but to combat the destruction of the creation by Satan. Anyway, I loved bio but when it came to population control I really freaked out. 2 out of 20 were pure pro-life. 5 out of 20 were for euthanizing the elderly (I did remind them that they would be old someday). I have no fear of people overpopulating the world. Neither should the evolutionists as “nature” usually takes care of that by plague. I can’t wait till the Creator returns and rules from Jerusalem. No DNA crashes will be left untouched by His loving, healing hand. So Be It.
Your failure in understanding here is because you fail to understand the 2nd law. Period. Net entropy is always greater than or equal to zero. Always.
Look up the Gibbs Free Energy equation. Once you understand this equation and how chemical processes spontaneously or non-spontaneously work, then you will have a much better understanding of thermodynamics and will probably stop making such embarrassing errors.
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