Posted on 07/10/2007 4:28:22 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Whew, don’t be so touchy! All I meant was what I said - there is no place in the Bible where it is said that Jesus laughed at something. It was just an observation. Perhaps He was too burdened by all the sin and suffering He encountered, or maybe it was just never recorded.
Jesus and the disciples did not violate divine law. They broke with the uninspired traditions of the Jews, but they did not break Biblical law.
Christ said that David’s eating of the showbread was unlawful. He did not endorse the unlawful act.
He was demonstrating the inconsistency of the Pharisees by pointing out that David broke the law of Moses, but they did not condemn him for that. Yet, when His disciples violated their human traditions (the law of God did not forbid them from plucking and eating the grain on the Sabbath), the Pharisees were charging His disciples with sin.
Jesus was without sin. He could not (and would not) have condoned breaking the law, otherwise He could not have been that perfect sacrifice and atonement for our sins.
Great catch! Thank you for the ping!
If he's preaching the word and encouraging his flock to grow in the word alone, then creativity is OK. If not, he'll hopefully be just another brief trend in the area where he is helping the flock plant seeds in an arid desert.
If you're going to try to imply that it is, the burden of proof is on you to do so in a far more conclusive manner than just tossing out the implication.
Prove that using humor to teach Christian, biblical principles is, in any sense, sin. Use examples, and include scriptural backup. Your argument must be constructed in such a way that your readers can easily follow your reasoning from first principles found in scriture all the way through to the practical application of the referenced texts that qualifies the use of humor as sin when the object of said humor is a) The Word of God (bible), or b) Christianity.
Since your research paper will be a bit more exhaustive than can be reasonably contained within a single post, feel free to post it as a Vanity piece, so that it will have it's own thread. Be sure to ping those of us who have participated in the discussion on this thread so that we may review your reasoned position and know from what great wisdom it arises.
If you've been reading through some of the other posts, you'll have noted that there ARE, indeed, some people taking the position that having a humorous approach to godly things might be sinful. So, no jokes about biblical content, no wisecracks about Christianity, And so on.
BTW: Do you know who's the shortest guy referenced in scripture??
-- scroll down --
Bildad, the Shuhite.
Well, his video has him pushing serious personal time in the Word, so he’s definitely advocating an “open book, ineset face” approach to Christian life among the congregation.
Check it out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267894961075966307
If this church is teaching the gospel then more power to it, if not then it’s like just like thousands of others who are playing church.
Just because it has an unorthodoxed service doesn’t mean it’s wrong or evil. This reminds me of the story in the Bible where the apostles tell Jesus they saw others baptising people in His name and told them to stop. Jesus asked them why they did that, that those who weren’t against Him were for Him.
Most of the Christians today think that worship is sitting in a pew and standing up a couple of times to mutter a couple of hymns on Sunday morning.
What do you think Heaven is going to be like? It’s going to be the biggest party ever!
Oh, groan! It took me a minute to get that, but it is so bad, it’s good. :-)
I have mixed feelings about the religion and humor thing. I don’t think humor appropriate in a worship service, but I have some friends who believe it is sinful to make a joke with God’s name even mentioned in it.
Which reminds me.... At a local Unitarian church, the only time Jesus’ name was heard was when the janitor fell down the stairs.
I was scolded for telling that one.
See, now THERE'S a perfect example of the genre.
Our first response is a laugh, because our human experience tells us that some guy cursing a blue streak as he tumbles down the stairs is comedic; like the bossy woman played by Ethel Merman slipping on the banana peel and landing on her butt at the end of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World".
But there's a deeper spiritual reality to the scenario, and I think this is why some people raise an objection to it being funny.
The deeper realities are: a) the guy's using God's Name in vain, and b) he's bound for eternal damnation.
Of course, niether of those is a laughing matter.
But, then, it's also not funny if the janitor breaks his leg on the way down the steps.
It's the nature of humor, however, that we'd laugh about that, later, too. In fact, reality being what it is, the janitor himself would probably be the first one to tell the story as a humorous anecdote.
As long as the punchline, itself, isn't vulgar or profane, I haven't the least problem with humor. I've often heard a humorous turn of prhase from the pulpit on Sunday morning, and it actually intensifies the power of the principle being illustrated. The humor drops your guard, and the punchline comes home with a ZING! You find yourself laughing and thinking "Ouch!" at the same time.
On balance, I think judiciously applied humor in church is a great way to get people to accept difficult scriptural conclusions about thorny issues; like the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down.
The Way to God is not a circus.
Nobody's saying that it is.
The Way to God is Jesus Christ, who is, at this moment, putting the final touches on the arrangements for His wedding; for which invitations have already been extended to "whosoever will". So, then, we who are on our way to His wedding banquet are a merry band, indeed, for we are all friends of the Bride, and our joy is nearly complete as the hour approaches when she will, at last, be joined with her Bridegroom. And the Bride -- stunning! Shimmering white, and glorious; without spot or wrinkle, attended by millions, all carrying her majestic train, which goes on for over 2000 years.
Oh, the songs, and the shouts of praise, the instruments, the dancing, and the laughter as we journey up to Zion, the city of our God, for the great feast.
Keep the faith; maybe we'll end up seated near one another at the table.
It is sad but pray4liberty does not realize he is the exact type who turns off so many non-christians to Christ.
That is something of the point of Erwin McManus’ book “The Barbarian Way”. There are MANY lost who find Jesus intriguing, even attractive, but they cannot figure out how it is that he and so many church people, who claim to follow him, seem like they’re from totally different planets.
If you’ve not read it, I recommend it.
I agree with your post. I have served in different churches for over 15 years and the church that I found most effective in bringing people into the kingdom is a seeker targeted church (the church where I have served for the past 8 years).
I see how my church uses different elements (drama’s, secular music, video clips and worship music) to spark an emotion in the congregation therefore opening the door for the pastor message about hope and salvation. I am the executive producer for my church and have heard many stories how moving our services where and how they give hope to the broken.
People come to our church because it is a safe place to hear a dangerous message, a message about salvation.
Yes we use a lot of elements that a lot of churches don’t use but our church has grown from 30 people eight years ago to over 500 today.
In my humble and faithful opinion — God is powerful enough to use anything to build his kingdom.
Hopefully you won't be as argumentative and sarcastic as you have been judging from all your lengthly posts, to me and others on this forum.
I want to take this opportunity to make myself very clear. I don't have a problem with doctrine, only with people who twist it to suit their purposes and pitch a form of 'happy clappy' Christianity that deceives people right into Hell while the pastors laugh all the way to the bank. Jesus warned us there would be many who would come in His Name, but their works would be evil. That was the point about my first post about apostate churches, which do exist (I used to go to one, unfortunately).
They were about ritual, not relationship to Jesus Christ, about feeling good without being good or even trying to be good to please the Lord. They had a form of "righteousness" while denying the power thereof. When they confirmed a homosexual bishop, I was out of there.
No believer in his or her right mind can condone what God condemns. I have found the Way, the Truth and the Life. I am a Believer. You don't have to sell to me or bully me into believing exactly as you do.
Despite my disdain for the creator’s showbiz approach, I have to admit that the “Baby’s Got Book” video is charming and well-done. However, it’s a mistake to attempt to conform the Gospel to the shallow, fickle tastes of today’s zero-attention-span generation. Instead, this young man should use his charisma and talent to conform today’s generation to the solemn and majestic worship of Christ. As a lapsed Catholic, he should know that.
Well, if getting people "into position" is enough, why not offer free beer? Don't stop at rap music why not Christian strippers, too?
Salvation is not something to be sold like soap and toothpaste, and a church is not a brand to be pushed to customers. The best way to show people the unutterable love of God is by loving them. The best way to introduce people to Jesus is by taking them to a mass, then pointing at the Host and Chalice and saying "There He is! Right there in front of you!"
As I said, I think the video was charming. It's a well-performed, catchy, and clever parody of a familiar pop song, and its full of humor, cute girls, and visual jokes. But that's not how the Apostles won souls to Christ. As the song in the video says, "Paul wouldn't use that anyways".
Brother, if those numbers represent, not just more buns in the pews, but more souls in the Kingdom, then I'd say you've just given a great example of a "good tree" demonstrating it's goodness by bearing "good fruit".
I expressed to a friend via email, today, my amazement that, in the wake of God's manifest desire to replace the Law and legalism with His love and grace, vis a vis sending His only Son, Jesus, to pay the price for the sin of the universe, so many Christians are STILL completely bound up in the very legalistic attitudes that Jesus dies to free them from.
It's almost as if Jesus death was, for them, of only minor effect. Yeah, they've been brought from eternal death to eternal life, but they've retained all of the judgmentalism and legalism of those who are still living under the Law. What; was the cross nothing more than "fire insurance"??
It really blows my mind, and it grieves the heart of God to see His redeemed ones making so little of the salvation for which He made The Supreme, and Most Holy sacrifice.
So now we see people making points by using churches who welcome people smelling like cigarettes as one of the hallmarks of hypocrisy?
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