Posted on 06/30/2007 4:36:50 PM PDT by 1066AD
Oswald 'had no time to fire all Kennedy bullets' By Tim Shipman in Washington, Sunday Telegraph Last Updated: 12:30am BST 01/07/2007
Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone in assassinating President John F Kennedy, according to a new study by Italian weapons experts of the type of rifle Oswald used in the shootings.
The new findings will encourage conspiracy theorists In fresh tests of the Mannlicher-Carcano bolt-action weapon, supervised by the Italian army, it was found to be impossible for even an accomplished marksman to fire the shots quickly enough.
The findings will fuel continuing theories that Oswald was part of a larger conspiracy to murder the 35th American president on 22 November 1963.
The official Warren Commission inquiry into the shooting concluded the following year that Oswald was a lone gunman who fired three shots with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 8.3 seconds.
But when the Italian team test-fired the identical model of gun, they were unable to load and fire three shots in less than 19 seconds - suggesting that a second gunman must have been present in Dealey Plaza, central Dallas, that day.
Two of the bullets hit Kennedy, with the first - the so called "magic bullet", ridiculed by conspiracy theorists - also wounding the governor of Texas, John B Connally, after it had struck the president.
In a further challenge to the official conclusions, the Italian team conducted two other tests at the former Carcano factory in Terni, north of Rome, where the murder weapon was made in 1940.
They fired bullets through two large pieces of meat, in an attempt to simulate the assumed path of the magic bullet. In their test, the bullet was deformed, unlike the first bullet in the Kennedy assassination, which remained largely intact.
The second bullet is thought to have missed its target. According to the commission, the third disintegrated when it hit Kennedy's head. The new research suggests, however, that this is incompatible with the fact that Oswald was only 80 yards away, in a book depository, when he fired. The Italian tests suggest that a bullet fired from that distance would have emerged intact from Kennedy's head, implying that the third shot must instead have come from a more distant location.
The findings will encourage conspiracy theorists who hold that Oswald could not have fired three shots in time. For each shot, he would have had to push up the gun's bolt handle, pull the bolt backwards to eject the spent cartridge case and then forward to slide the next round into the chamber, before turning down the bolt handle to lock it in place.
Nearly seven out of 10 Americans believe that Kennedy was murdered as a result of a plot. Depending on which theory they back, the participants supposedly included any or all of the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, the FBI chief J Edgar Hoover, the military-industrial complex and Vice-President Lyndon B Johnson.
It is the second challenge in two months to the view of the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone. In May, researchers at Texas A&M University argued that the ballistics evidence used to rule out a second gunman had been misinterpreted.
The findings will be a frustration to Vincent Bugliosi, the author of a 1,600-page book, also published in May, which claimed to put to rest all the conspiracy theories of the past 44 years.
The Italian findings will be hotly contested by those who believe that Oswald was a lone gunman - not least because they contradict firing tests previously conducted, using Oswald's actual rifle, by the FBI and the US Marines, and another study by Washington police marksmen using an identical gun.
Oswald would only have needed to reload the weapon twice in the eight seconds to get off all three shots, since the time was measured only from the moment he fired the first shot. The FBI concluded that a marksman could have fired a shot at least every 2.3 seconds.
In his book, Mr Bugliosi details how after just two or three minutes' practice with the gun in 1979, three police marksmen aiming at three targets representing Kennedy at the same distance from Oswald, got away three shots in less than eight seconds.
One marksman hit the targets twice and missed the third shot by an inch. A second shooter scored a "kill" with his second shot.
Mr Bugliosi recounts three separate ballistics tests that found that the magic bullet could have wounded Kennedy and Connally and emerged in similar condition to the real bullet. But that is unlikely to stop the Italian research fuelling another generation of conspiracy writers.
I had somewhat the same experience with that friend. He handed me one of the cutest little Ruger that he had fell in love with. I think he bought about four of them. It was a Ruger SP101 in .32 H%R Magnum. It had the three inch barrel.
First off, this guy would find a load that the gun liked no matter what it cost him in time or money. That’s probably why he would buy more than one.
He handed me the gun at a river and there was a block of wood in the middle that measured about six inches by six. I took the shot and I saw the block disappear under the water for a second and a chip of wood broke off. That was a solid hit.
The middle of the river was about 30 yards away.
I’m not fond of Ruger’s Semi’s and I think their Mini-14 is a unfortunate poor design but their revolvers are the finest money can buy.
1. That was his work station. He didn’t do any work that day and a series of boxes appeared in the corner where a sniper had killed a president with Oswald’s fingerprints all over the boxes. That’s like someone setting up a rifle rest in your living room while you are home and blasting out the window with a rifle. How do you account for that one when the police show up?
2.Someone kills the president in front of your coworkers and your initial response is to get a soda? No one saw him during the shooting either.
3. The rifle was bought under his known alias which was a take off of Adolf Hitler’s name. How do you account for Marina’s admission she took the pictures of Oswald and his rifle? How do you account for his fingerprints and thread from his shirt that he was wearing caught on the butt plate?
4. Not even close and that was divided by the people who thought it came from the bypass. There were some people who thought they had heard the shots from there but there isn’t a single eyewitness to anyone on the grassy knoll with a firearm. None.
We now have computer enhancements for photographs. The so-called “Badgeman” behind the fence turned out to be a coke bottle resting on the corner of the low concrete wall.
5. The autopsy and the sworn testimony say one shot from the rear. The only magic bullets are the ones from the conspiracy theorists who change angles and their bullets disappear after entering two inches of flesh. Just where are all those bullets anyway?
6. 2.3 inch bullet impact from the rear. Cratered bullet hole in the rear of the skull. Large pieces broken off at the front of the skull. Frame 313 shows brain matter and blood flying forward. Connelly hit his body against the back of the front seat from the blood and brain tissue. The limo and the motorcycle officer drove through that mess at eleven miles an hour. Your knowledge of bullet wounds seem to come from watching too much tv and movies.
I’ve talked to two of the doctors who worked on JFK that day at Parkland, and they do not agree with you..........
“Your post just proved you don’t know a thing about firearms.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHA -you’re just another loudmouth that never missed a pheasant at 40 yds!!!!!
“What a lot of people don’t know in order to qualify for the police or military, they shoot pistols at fifty yards standing up.”
My best friend qualifies police and they do NOT qual at 50 yds. Try 50 ft.
And the NRA qual program is 75’
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/marksmanship/explorer_service_handgun.asp
PS 5o yards is 150’
Wrong. NRA bullseye competition is at 50 yards.
http://www.nracentral.com/bullseye-pistol-qualification.php
I don’t know who your friend is, but if they have to use a reduced course due to limits in the length of their pistol range, the targets are reduced accordingly.
In case you missed it.
Position
Except for the first three ratings (Pro-Marksman, Marksman, Marksman 1st Class) where the benchrest or two-handed standing position may be used, all firing for bullseye pistol qualification is conducted from the standing position using one hand.
One hand hold at fifty yards.
By the way, your link is for the Explorer program or in other words, older Boy Scouts.
I also don’t believe you know a thing about firearms.
I have personally fired three shots (granted, unaimed except for being pointed downrange) from a similar M-C rifle in 4.7 seconds, just over half the time LHO did*. As I imagine he did*, I started with a round in the chamber.
*In accordance with the official account.
The overwhelming evidence in this case is that LHO is the only guilty party. The one thing I haven't seen discussed much on this thread is Jack Ruby's involvement. IMO he is the cause (indirectly) of all these lame conspiracy theories. He was not a mob hit man. If he was, why the hell would he take his dog and leave it in his car if he was going to kill someone. Ruby's killing of LHO was a chance thing that really screwed up the whole investigation of the assassination and caused too much wild speculation.
In regards to a stripper working at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club; Karen Bennett "Little Lynn" Carlin:
When Secret Service agent Roger C. Warner interviewed Carlin later that day, in Warner's words she "twisted in her chair, stammered in her speech, and seemed on the point of hysteria." She told Warner, according to his Warren Commission affidavit, that she was "under the impression" that Oswald, Ruby, and others unknown to her were "involved in a plot to assassinate President Kennedy and that she would be killed if she gave any information to the authorities." 7 She later calmed down in the interview and said "she had no information in her possession" that Ruby was involved in a conspiracy, but she asked that all she related "be kept confidential to prevent retaliation against her in case there was a plot afoot." 8 Months later she testified to the Warren Commission that she called Ruby around 10 o'clock that morning to ask for money for rent and groceries. She also testified that she thought Ruby "had connections with Lee Harvey Oswald," but she insisted there was "nothing to base it on, except my own opinion." 9
And the essay also points out; Jack Ruby's Dog, or Goodbye Little Sheba That Ruby packed a pistol going into the Dallas Police Department; but left his trunk key and billfold in the glove box and locked the rest of the car keys, and $900 in the trunk. Car doors left unlocked.
a video operator for WBAP-TV in Dallas, told the FBI and Warren Commission that he saw Ruby standing on the sidewalk on the Commerce Street side of DPD about 8:00 a.m. that morning, and again about 10:00 a.m. Smith said that Ruby came over to the truck at one point and asked, "Have they brought Oswald down yet?"
A whole lot on that dog in the essay, when the author uses sworn testimony, it's not always easy to just say it's wild speculation.
If you start the clock correctly as you fire the first shot, you only have to return to aimpoint twice.
“I also don’t believe you know a thing about firearms.”
Do you think youre impressing anyone here? You said all police qual at 50 yards and that is BS.
I gave you the link for an NRA police qual program at 75 ft and you retorted with another slanderous remark and a link to a pistol program UNRELATED to police qual.
I have shot at dozens of ranges where police qualify and NOT ONE WAS OVER 75FT.
I was captain of my rifle team and we placed 7th in the country. Now, you were saying?
I am sick of all you phoney experts that have no idea what what terrible trigger control this carbine had and that squeezing off an accurate just one accurate shot with all its creep and pull would have required 2-3 seconds alone on a moving target.
You gave me a link to the NRA’s police Explorer program. That’s part of the Boy Scouts.
I stand by all the statements I have made to you.
Short version: I guess I'm unreasonable.
Boy - you dont give up - police qual with pistol is NOT 50 yards.
.......................
Official NRA Training and Qualification — Law Enforcement
TQ15 TQ-15 23” x 42” (P) 25 Yard, Training & Qualification Target (gray) 36.96 for 10022.18 for 5013.31 for 25 7.99 for dozen
TQ15(black) TQ-15 23” x 42” (P) 25 Yard, Training & Qualification Target (Not Official NRA) 36.96 for 10022.18 for 5013.31 for 25 7.99 for dozen
TQ16 TQ-16 14” x 21” (P) 50 Foot, Official NRA Training & Qualification Target (Reduced from 25 Yard TQ-15) 12.76 for 100 7.66 for 50 4.60 for 25 2.76 for dozen
TQ19 TQ-19 24” x 42” (P) 25 Yard, Official NRA Training & Qualification Target 36.96 for 10022.18 for 5013.31 for 25 7.99 for dozen
TQ20 TQ-20 12” x 20” (P) 50 Foot, Official NRA Training & Qualification Target (Reduced from 25 Yard TQ-19) 10.56 for 100 6.34 for 50 3.80 for 25 2.28 for dozen
TQ21 TQ-21 24” x 42” (P) 25 Yard, Official NRA Training & Qualification Target 36.96 for 10022.18 for 5013.31 for 25 7.99 for dozen
TQ22 TQ-22 12” x 20” (P) 50 Foot, Official NRA Training & Qualification Target (Reduced from 25 Yard TQ-21)
Pardon the gruesomeness of this next:
The head shot frame of the Z film shows the hydrostatic explosion of JFK's cranium. A significant portion of the ejecta, including skull fragments and brain matter, was sent upward.* What goes up, must come down; I believe the car moved sufficiently below the death cloud that a skull fragment launched vertically would inevitably land on the trunk lid.
*I much doubt whether this would indicate the fatal shot was actually fired from below.
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