Posted on 06/30/2007 4:36:50 PM PDT by 1066AD
Oswald 'had no time to fire all Kennedy bullets' By Tim Shipman in Washington, Sunday Telegraph Last Updated: 12:30am BST 01/07/2007
Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone in assassinating President John F Kennedy, according to a new study by Italian weapons experts of the type of rifle Oswald used in the shootings.
The new findings will encourage conspiracy theorists In fresh tests of the Mannlicher-Carcano bolt-action weapon, supervised by the Italian army, it was found to be impossible for even an accomplished marksman to fire the shots quickly enough.
The findings will fuel continuing theories that Oswald was part of a larger conspiracy to murder the 35th American president on 22 November 1963.
The official Warren Commission inquiry into the shooting concluded the following year that Oswald was a lone gunman who fired three shots with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 8.3 seconds.
But when the Italian team test-fired the identical model of gun, they were unable to load and fire three shots in less than 19 seconds - suggesting that a second gunman must have been present in Dealey Plaza, central Dallas, that day.
Two of the bullets hit Kennedy, with the first - the so called "magic bullet", ridiculed by conspiracy theorists - also wounding the governor of Texas, John B Connally, after it had struck the president.
In a further challenge to the official conclusions, the Italian team conducted two other tests at the former Carcano factory in Terni, north of Rome, where the murder weapon was made in 1940.
They fired bullets through two large pieces of meat, in an attempt to simulate the assumed path of the magic bullet. In their test, the bullet was deformed, unlike the first bullet in the Kennedy assassination, which remained largely intact.
The second bullet is thought to have missed its target. According to the commission, the third disintegrated when it hit Kennedy's head. The new research suggests, however, that this is incompatible with the fact that Oswald was only 80 yards away, in a book depository, when he fired. The Italian tests suggest that a bullet fired from that distance would have emerged intact from Kennedy's head, implying that the third shot must instead have come from a more distant location.
The findings will encourage conspiracy theorists who hold that Oswald could not have fired three shots in time. For each shot, he would have had to push up the gun's bolt handle, pull the bolt backwards to eject the spent cartridge case and then forward to slide the next round into the chamber, before turning down the bolt handle to lock it in place.
Nearly seven out of 10 Americans believe that Kennedy was murdered as a result of a plot. Depending on which theory they back, the participants supposedly included any or all of the CIA, the Mafia, the Cubans, the FBI chief J Edgar Hoover, the military-industrial complex and Vice-President Lyndon B Johnson.
It is the second challenge in two months to the view of the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone. In May, researchers at Texas A&M University argued that the ballistics evidence used to rule out a second gunman had been misinterpreted.
The findings will be a frustration to Vincent Bugliosi, the author of a 1,600-page book, also published in May, which claimed to put to rest all the conspiracy theories of the past 44 years.
The Italian findings will be hotly contested by those who believe that Oswald was a lone gunman - not least because they contradict firing tests previously conducted, using Oswald's actual rifle, by the FBI and the US Marines, and another study by Washington police marksmen using an identical gun.
Oswald would only have needed to reload the weapon twice in the eight seconds to get off all three shots, since the time was measured only from the moment he fired the first shot. The FBI concluded that a marksman could have fired a shot at least every 2.3 seconds.
In his book, Mr Bugliosi details how after just two or three minutes' practice with the gun in 1979, three police marksmen aiming at three targets representing Kennedy at the same distance from Oswald, got away three shots in less than eight seconds.
One marksman hit the targets twice and missed the third shot by an inch. A second shooter scored a "kill" with his second shot.
Mr Bugliosi recounts three separate ballistics tests that found that the magic bullet could have wounded Kennedy and Connally and emerged in similar condition to the real bullet. But that is unlikely to stop the Italian research fuelling another generation of conspiracy writers.
Go To The Source!
Not defending this test; but thought, with some comprehension of the Italian language, maybe their press might shed some light on this story.
Obviously, the assertion that the bullet would become deformed is what the photograph is about.
I don’t want to devote a lot of time translating the article; it seems it reads that Kennedy visited Italy in ‘63 as well.
http://www.ilgiornale.it/a.pic1?ID=189362
Babelfished it; but there may be some reports in the English language that lack some details in the stories that Italy’s press has written.
Maybe instead of everyone saying, 3 shots, first cartridge is loaded; the presumption is 3 shots after the initial one if there were possibly four shots.
this is ancient history. They should be investigating all the Clinton conspiracies.
Well said, JW. - You'll get no rational rebuttals, as none are possible. - From Oswald's point of view in the 6th floor window, JFK and Connelly simply did not line up when the 'throat shot' took place; -- and there are no 're-creation' photos that show such a line up.
Don’t act like a liberal. When I said “no one will convince me” I did not mean I would not listen to facts.
You took my statment out of context.
I clearly stated I would not be convinced otherwise based on EVIDENCE I saw of the ACTUAL SHOOTING.
Fortunately, that's not necessary.
>>Apparently, according to some of these posters, He and I must be some super human, deadeye shooting machines.<<
Like I posted earlier my husband and I tried a little experiment this morning to see how fast he could shoot three rounds bolt action. 3.5 seconds.
Apparently he’s been kryptonite-infused instead of being your typical Marine.
Of course, the CT’ers will tie themselves in knots trying to figure out how it just couldn’t be. You’d think they’d never heard of Occam.
Wow! Thanks for the animation. It makes sense. I don’t think I’ve ever seen where Kennedy’s head initially goes forward and THEN goes back. Fits with simple physics since a large wad of brain was thrust out of the head that there would be a normal reaction of the head to then move backwards. How do conspiracy theorists get around that?
I just tried to cycle a old Turkish Mauser a couple of times and I can’t believe I am so slow. I’m lucky I can shoot fast.
I gave my kid a lever action and it was so funny. Since he’s new school and I’m old school I had to remind him to chamber after every shot. He’s so used to semi’s. Kids these days. Since he came back from Iraq he hasn’t had the SAW. He’s back carrying an M-16.
So the question I have is do you tell your husband he’s Superman or does he already know that’s how you think of him? Either way, it’s sweet and he’s a lucky man.
Simple. They ignore it. I have been trying to figure out just what kind of psychological problem would explain this behavior. Since I'm not a shrink, I was really thinking of asking one what the clinical name of this anomaly would be. I gave up and thought up my own phrase. I call it, "OJ Jurist Syndrome". No matter if a person shows someone with "OJS" all the photographs, the Zapruder film, sworn testimony or years in the making computer simulations, they just ignore it. Their pat answer is the same: "I don't care what you just showed me, I believe what I believe".
Oswald was seen in the window killing the President. That's how they had his description to pick him up and these numbskulls still don't believe he did it. He was the ONLY ONE TO LEAVE THE BOOK DEPOSITORY and they still defend him.
They are EXACTLY the same type of people on the Democratic Underground.
I'm going to have to read the entire thread before I comment next time. I saw a demonstration in the 70's that showed it could not be done. Had not seen the other shows.Happy to stand corrected on this one.
OTOH;
I don’t know what Lawyer Garry Spence’s political beliefs are; but I remember when he was part of the trial of LHO on TV: a trial I believe he lost btw;
But in his closing argument for the defense; He brought out how in the schools and across this nation, you can ask, even to a schoolkid; “Who killed President Kennedy”; “Lee Harvey Oswald killed him.” It’s oft repeated. We have been told this.
The American Public clearly have a lot of skepticism on this issue, with still about 70 percent thinking it was conspiracy.
Fifty percent of the American People vote for the democratic party.
I was in Dallas on that day. I was at Parkland on that day. I saw JFK alive and dead. I knew the docs who cared for JFK. The Warren Commission was correct in its conclusions. Conspiracy buffs will never be satisfied!
Fox News;
Heard of them??
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102511,00.html
“On the 40th anniversary of JFK’s assassination, a recent FOX News poll shows most Americans disagree with the government’s conclusions about the killing. The Warren Commission (search) found that Lee Harvey Oswald (search) acted alone when he shot Kennedy, but 66 percent of the public today think the assassination was “part of a larger conspiracy” while only 25 percent think it was the “act of one individual.” These new poll results are similar to previous surveys conducted by Louis Harris and Associates in 1967, 1975 and 1981, when about two-thirds also felt the shooting was part of a larger conspiracy.
The FOX News poll, conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corporation (search), also shows that most Americans (74 percent) think there was a cover-up of the facts about the assassination of JFK. Few people (14 percent) think “we know all the facts” and 12 percent are unsure. “
Now, where do we have a link, that Republicans believe the JFK assassination was a lone nut and Democrats believe it was conspiracy??
Wrong. We think Oswald did it we just think he had help.
Having stood at that window before it was blocked off, I can tell you this: He could see the car come directly at him and then turn slowly to his right. He had only to wait until his target cleared the trees below him. The 20 sec, of firing was really too quick for the driver to react since what was happening was behind him. The target moved in an almost straight line directly in from of him as he was firing.
Bull. Your fellow “theorists” have been saying for years Oswald was just a patsy. You guys just dream it up as you go along. You have shooters hiding in trees, sewers, Secret Serviceman discharging an M-16 etc. Someone even dreamed up a hidden gun in an umbrella.
Your fellow “theorists” had Oswald surrounded by co-workers watching the parade on the front stairs of the Depository. The real co-worker, who doesn’t even look like Oswald had to come forward and explain he was the guy standing there and guys exactly like you STILL DON’T BELIEVE IT.
So show me exactly where Oswald’s “help” was standing and shooting with a rifle. Make it match the trajectories and wounds. I could use a laugh.
I know its all Hollywood { Oliver Stone style } but whenever I watch JFK it scares me half to death...especially the scene where Jim Garrison meets he man in black, Mr X { Donald Sutherland }.
Theories similar to X-FILES....Trust No One.
I don’t know who or how, I just don’t think a loser like Oswald could have pulled it off without help from someone.
I also have such a low opinion of LBJ that I wouldn’t put it past him to have been involved.
It was the only way LBJ was ever going to make it to the presidency and I think he was the kind of person who would kill to get there.
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