Posted on 06/28/2007 8:09:34 PM PDT by Salman
Edited on 06/28/2007 8:14:02 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
As former leaders of ex-gay ministries, we apologize to those individuals and families who believed our message that there is something inherently wrong with being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender. Some who heard our message were compelled to try to change an integral part of themselves, bringing harm to themselves and their families. Although we acted in good faith, we have since witnessed the isolation, shame, fear, and loss of faith that this message creates. We apologize for our part in the message of broken truth we spoke on behalf of Exodus and other organizations.
How silly.
Let's try an experiment: Don't eat for a week.
Easier: Don't watch your favorite television program ever again.
I never said mankind was no better than an animal, so your "argument" is worthless.
Various forms of ridiculous behavior have made people think they're something they're not--this silly "ex-gay" thing, for one example; the Democrat party, for another, which convinces censorious, anti-free-thinkers they're open-minded.
Three guys with a press release -- But plenty are taking their story at face value.
Then you use eating as an analogy. Man has to eat to survive. He does NOT need sex as a toy to live. Gays are self-absorbed. Their whole lifestyle is about physical pleasure and they even identify themselves, as a group, based on their self-absorption with sex. It's not that they CAN'T ignore physical urges, it's that they WON'T. That you don't understand that true repentance means sometimes ignoring physical urges is sad. Repentance does not mean that you'll never again be tempted.
Analogies are imperfect. We were discussing physical urges. You CAN go for a week without eating. Go on and do it, if it's so damned easy to resist physical urges.
I don't give a hoot in hell about queers as long as they don't force me to condone or underwrite their lifestyles...just as I think about anyone else. But I find people who are fixated on how eeeevil these people are just as weird. Sure, fight their silly attempts at legalized marriage and all that garbage, but more people need to worry about their own lives and less about things they know nothing about (and in my case, couldn't care less about).
Where did I state that it was easy? And did you miss this statement by me? Repentance does not mean that you'll never again be tempted.
but more people need to worry about their own lives and less about things they know nothing about
An assumption. I have a gay brother and know a lot about the lifestyle.
(and in my case, couldn't care less about).
A lot of passion in the face of claimed disinterest.
Lol I know, I was yankin’ your chain.
There are lots of things that bring consequences to us regardless of what think about them. I can disbelieve the law of gravity, but if I jump off the Washington Monument, believe me there will be consequences. I can disbelieve the presence of a speed trap around the next bend of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, but if I’m going 90 and the trooper is there with the radar gun, and he’s low on quota (lol) I’m in trouble.
Likewise, we may choose to disbelieve God’s existence, but He has made that existence plain as day. Romans 1:18-20. Furthermore, God has the power to make old things, and people, new. II Cor 5:17.
Thanks.
Hard as hell. Ever know a recovering alchoholic? He can't touch the stuff for the rest of his life - he'll never be a "recovered" alcoholic.
You can lose weight by diet and excercise.
Been there, done that. It's hard as hell, and you really have to want to do it. It takes a major lifestyle change - and will to resist the ice cream and other goodies people always offer you.
Once you’re gay, it’s for life, and no one should ever do a damn thing to help you live a normal lifestyle.
Gays, like alcoholics and overeaters, can never live a "normal lifestyle." It's always going to be a battle of will to try to ignore your twisted desire for gay sex, or booze, or a bucket of fried chicken. You're going to be fighting this all your life.
ummmm...........huh????
You have completely sidestepped my point in favor of quibbling over semantics. Your choice.
An assumption. I have a gay brother and know a lot about the lifestyle.
Please show me where I was indicating you specifically. Again, you completely sidestep my main point and focus on an afterthought.
A lot of passion in the face of claimed disinterest.
"Passion"? Talk about assumptions. I am very much interested in how this affects laws and my pocketbook; I couldn't give a damn about the issue of homosexuality per se. That you can't understand that simple distinction is understandable, seeing how you quoted every part of my response to you except the main point. Again, your choice, but it only proves you have no argument when you run away from my main points.
Except you're quoting from a book you believe is God's word; I do not believe that, so it doesn't mean anything to me.
However, if there's one thing that annoys me it's the kneejerk bashing of believers in God, the acceptable bias of the day. On that, at least, we can agree.
Ok. Let's review. Your post 34 that I originally responded to simply said :That you can't see the difference between REPENTING actions and ignoring physical urges (which are not the same as engaging in homosexual acts) says all that needs to be said about this ridiculous "ex-gay" foolishness.
My response in 108 was about urges and repentance.
Your response in 121 was also about urges.
I responded in 124 about urges and repentance.
Your response in 125 introduced new subject matter that I ignored in post 126
In post 130, you continued to try to distance yourself from post 34 with new subject matter.
If you don't wish to further discuss man having self-control while animals do not, that's ok.
As to your observation about pedophiles - no pedophile has ever been "convicted" because they were aroused under controlled conditions- its a diagnostic practice used to commit them through the sexual predator laws. Further; the term "choice" is a slippery one- especially when applied to bizarre sexual practices. Does one choose to have a foot fetish? I am not sure and I don't think anyone else is. That was the point of my comment.
Since sexual practices don't exist outside morality (unless one completely dismisses the concept of "age of consent" or consent entirely), its no excuse that a person may have urges which are unchosen. The questions is, and always shall be, which urges are the ones we will validate as normal.
Consequently, it doesn't matter if someone has an inborn desire for same sex contact as it doesn't matter if another person has an inborn desire for 3 year olds - it only matters what we decide is "normal." And on that matter I am going with 5000 years of history and normal biology instead of another failed social experimenting based on license.
This article says there's 2 conferences going on more or less simultaneously --- the ex-gays and the ex-ex-gays --- and there may even be some meeting of the minds.
” it only matters what we decide is “normal.” “
What arouses a person is beyond that person’s control. If you have decided that is not true, we’re done here.
That is just so much bull$&*%. That presumes that we are nothing more than biological machines without concious control over any portion of our responses. I reject that position as being simplistic and foolish. People can "control" their responses to many things - including sexuality. The fact that many won't, or feel that they can't, doesn't mean squat. Likewise, your refusal to consider anything else but "it's written in stone by biology" makes no sense in light of the fact that man is both the most adaptable animal in nature and the only one who has sufficient insight to even consider moderating his or her behavior beyond that which nature demands.
Even so; what of it? If a man desires sex with 3 year olds are we to accept it as normal merely because he, or others, say that his desire is inborn? I think not. If I need not accept it for persons who desire 3 year olds, I need not accept it for persons who desire others of the same sex.
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