Posted on 06/26/2007 5:39:45 AM PDT by cll
Is Puerto Rico really a part of the United States? And if it is, is it worth defending from attack? That's the emerging issue right now because Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez has just made his first threat on the U.S . commonwealth as he seeks to acquire advanced submarines.
Chavez is heading to Russia in the next few days, to discuss the purchase of five kilo-class submarines, and possibly four more advanced amur-class subs. There are questions as to how he would be able to finance them as well as how obtain the advanced training to bring them online, but there is no question from his statments that he wants them. Saturday, he laid it all out as AFP reported:
"They're making all this noise because Venezuela is going to buy some submarines. And I told them, 'Why not?'" Chavez said without confirming or denying the rumor.
"We've got half a million square kilometers of (Caribbean) sea, to the north, we've got Puerto Rico, in other words the empire (as he calls the United States), and France in the western Caribbean islands. We've got a huge sea," he said apparently alluding the use to which Venezuela's submarines would be put.
If Chavez succeeds in getting his hands on these submarines, the broad picture is that he will have the biggest submarine force in South America, bigger than Brazil, Argentina or Colombia, with a patrol range extending from Halifax, Canada to Montevideo, Uruguay. He will be in a position to patrol the entire Gulf of Mexico out of U.S. naval surveillance unless the battery-operated submarines surface for air, something they only need to do once a day, in the case of the Kilo-class subs and perhaps less with the more advanced models. The only way to monitor their moves will be to catch them exiting ports, a difficult task.
What's most disturbing is not the range, though, but that Chavez seems to want explicitly to direct them at Puerto Rico and France's two Overseas Departments of Martinique and Guadaloupe, both of which, in U.S . terms, have the status of states.
Although there are many islands in the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf Of Mexico, and many colonial powers, it's significant that Chavez alluded to the U.S.'s and France's prime presences there. In the past he's threatened Netherlands and its overseas territories, and he's always hated Britain, but now he seems to have singled out France. While Chavez's antipathy to the U.S. is well-known, what's less well-known is that France's new president, Nicolas Sarkozy, has an interest in the region and a clear understanding about Chavez. He's stepped up his ties to Venezuela's battered neighbor, Colombia, and probably will become more active in the region as Chavez's aggression steps up. Chavez knows this, and wants to throw out a few threat to France and the U.S. now.
Chavez's threats against the U.S. (and France) signal a first shot in a new level of confrontation with the West. Gone are the days of his devil speeches, he now seems to want to only communicate through weaponry and offering explicit plans as to how he intends to use them - starting with Puerto Rico. We better be paying attention.
Yes. Since 1898.
To answer the broader question, this is getting out of hand, this Chavez deal. We cannot continue to write him off as a buffoon.
When you buy Citgo fuel or some of his “reduced price” Citgo home heating oil - THIS IS WHAT YOU SUPPORT!!
TAKE THAT BLACK SLUDGE AND SELL IT SOMEWHERE ELSE! WE DON’T WANT IT!
sort of is more correct.
since July 25 1950 Puerto Rico is what is known as a "free associated state" which means that the door is open for them to be independent anytime they wish - Puerto Ricans pay no Federal Income Tax (they fill out the same forms but the bucks stay in PR). They cannot vote in US elections, but they are US citizens and have honorably and ably served in the US Armed Forces since 1898.
Somehow I find it difficult to see the Venezuelan Navy as a great threat.
What are they going to do, shell San Juan?
If they do, the US Navy will destroy them in about an hour.
DU members buy CITGO. But we all know that they’re traitors and sell-outs.
Yet another example of the old saying “a fool and his money are soon parted”.
There are two vital sea lanes straddling Puerto Rico - the Mona and Virgin Passages. These are important approaches to the Panama Canal. He could slow worldwide trade to a crawl if he were to blockade shipping there alone.
My bet would be ships...I would also bet that our ASW guys would have a BIG surprise ready for them.
I agree. This is just silly.
The Mouse that Roared....
They could give us a problem. Very quiet if equipped with fuel cell drive. If top end they also carry missiles.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/677.htm
Chavez loves the Jackal - he often refers to him in his speeches, he visited the Jackal in prison soon after his first "election" and he believes the Jackal is a political prisoner and a true revolutionary.
That being said, if he thinks he can seize Martinique, the French will had him his head like the UK treated the Argentine junta in the Falklands.
Martinique is considered by the French and the French government not to be a colony or an overseas possession, but a part of France proper, like Lyons or Strasbourg.
“This is just silly.”
More propaganda than anything,IMO.
The American left will praise him for preparing to stand up to “the oppressers.”
Many in Venezuela will see it as a boost to national power and assurance that “They Count!”
Since most of the third worlders in that area subscribe to the “ bigger gun” philosophy, Hugo comes out as top jeffe.
Only an unknowing moron would think that.
These guys have been up against the absolute BEST for more than 60 yrs. They have my faith and trust.
How about sinking an oil tanker at the entrance to the Panama Canal? Anonymously, of course. We're not talking about a mentally stable guy here. He could do enough mischief with one or two anti-social acts to throw the economy of the western hemisphere into quite a tizzy.
Of course, he'd pay for it in spades. But never depend on a lunatic to pay much attention to the things that might deter a sane person.
Leftists that hang out at DU and vote Democrat have been in a funk ever since Reagan defeated the USSR in the cold war.
All they had left was Coooobah & their Che T-Shirts.
Now, they have Chavez and Venezuela as their new hope. It’s like Star Wars Episode IV for them.
“Chavez is heading to Russia in the next few days, to discuss the purchase of five kilo-class submarines, and possibly four more advanced amur-class subs. There are questions as to how he would be able to finance them as well as how obtain the advanced training to bring them online...”
The Russians will sell military hardware to any old slag these days...
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