Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
I'm not dodging, I've answered this before. (Not to you though, I don't think.)
John 17: 21
"May they also be in us..."
Does the Holy Spirit dwell within you? If so, you are in/with/joined to/ God, but you are not God.
Rev. 21: 7
You're stuck on the "all things" part. Note He also says "I will be his God", ergo you are not God.
I'm 'implying' nothing!
I merely posted what Christ SAID!!!
John 6:29. Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Believe it or don't.
No
#1158
"sons of God shouted for joy"
Angels.
"We were with Him!"
You would think something like that would stick in your memory...
"Are you blind?"
Are you illiterate?
"just your stack of anti-Mormon literature?"
I have no such thing.
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times. In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
Likewise the Lord's anointed in this dispensation(which is clearly what the passage refers to), the Prophet Joseph Smith, will sit in judgment on all those who fall into his sphere of stewardship. This does not make him the Savior or a savior, no more than it made Moses a savior to his people when he and the other leaders sat in judgment of their worthiness. No more than it made the Apostles saviors when they sit in judgment upon their thrones.
That is correct.
That was just dumb.
I think the thing to remember is that Christ let misunderstandings lie . . . he was often misunderstood and often did not explain the misunderstanding. See the comical interchanges with Christ and Nicodemus, Christ and the Samaritan woman, Christ and the official whose son was sick in John 2, 3, and 4. Look at some of the conversations with the Pharisees, particularly when he stood accused. He didn’t explain himself to those he did not want to.
My point is this. Scriptural understanding comes from the Holy Spirit, the plain words of scripture, and from your fellow Christians. It is critical to read the Bible in whole, not in part, and to not let understanding run away from you based on one verse. For example, remember the rich young man that asked Christ what he had to do to be saved? Christ answered him in part at first and said follow the law. “Which law?” the rich man asked, and Christ named some of the 10 commandments, but not all. The young man asked what else he had to do. Christ said sell all you have, give it to the poor and follow me. Which of these was the full answer? Must we sell all we have and follow Christ? Must we only obey those commandments Christ named in this one exchange to do God’s will?
Mal. 3: 8, 10
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
• • •
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Daniel,
In the second half of Jesus prayer for believers, He turns
to all future believers (after praying specifically for
the disciples).
He prays especially for their unity with each other. He
prays...
“that they may (future tense)all be one ; even as You,
Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us,
so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”
Jesus’ prayer, specifically, is that the unity of all
believers would reflect the unity of Jesus and the Father.
The result would be that the world would believe in Christ.
Some observations for you and my other friends here...
God answered this prayer positionally on the day of Pentecost
when He united believers with Himself in the body of Christ,
the Universal Church (cf. 1 Cor. 12:13). Every time a new
believer comes to Christ, he is placed into the Body of
Christ. So believers are one in Christ, for the church is one
body. Christians can belong to different fellowships, but
they belong to the same Lord and to each other as one body.
Beyond the positional truth here, Christ is also praying
for unity in their actions to each other. and their spiritual
unity is to be manifest in the way they live. The unity
Christ prays for His church is the same kind of unity that
He has with the Father: “just as You are in Me and I am in
You.”
There is a divine pattern of unity (oneness).
The Father does His works through His Son and the Son always
does what pleases the God the Father. This unity is to be
patterned in the church. Without union with Jesus and the
Father, Christians can do nothing (see John 15:5).
I believe the reason is simple...
The unbelieving world can’t see God, but they can see
Christians. What they see in us is what they believe about
God.
Beyond that prayer, there is nothing there that says we
will be gods. I suspect you are reading the passage, seeing
a word that sounds like it would support a mormonism teaching
of becoming gods, and reading that concept into the passage.
best,
ampu
There are a few things maybe you can clarify for me Elsie, or maybe one of the others here. There has been a wonderful debate here on this thread about a host of issues. There have been many great points made. The question is this, how do you know what you claim is truth?
You bring up scriptures to make your case only to have other scriptures brought up by others that refute your case. Which side is correct? You, b/c you say so? B/C others say so? You claim to know the will of the Lord, but so did the Pharisees, so do the Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, Lutherans, etc.... So, who’s right? How can you tell?
The best way I know of is to simply ask the author of all this, the Lord. He has repeatedly asked us through the scriptures to do just that. “Ask & ye shall recieve”, “Knock & it shall be opened to you”. Nowhere in the scriptures does the Lord renounce his admonition for us to call upon him for answers. He never has indicated that it was time for us to go it alone, the heavens were closed, not to bother him anymore b/c we had all we needed. Now man has said that but not the Lord! The Nicean creed upon wich you pin many of your beliefs, was brought about by a bunch of men who argued for days & came up w/ what they believed was truth. The creed was not however a unanimous decision. They never claimed to have direct revelation form the Lord as the prophets of old had received.
In fact one of the troubling points for you SHOULD be that much of what is found in the Nicean creed is NOWHERE to be found in the bible! So, these guys claimed no revelation, didn’t all agree, & completely relied upon their own intellect to come up w/ something that has become a TRADITION for centuries. Is that really the foundation of your belief? Relying on them? Why not ask the Lord as he’s asked us to do?
Seems rather simple, but is one of the most powerful messages of the LDS faith. Why fight that? Now if you tell me that you’ve taken the issue before the Lord as he instructed us to do, & you received an answer from him that your faith is the way, I can respect that. But if you’re just relying on what your vast intellect tells you or what a bunch of men came up w/ centuries ago who openly claimed NO divinity to what they came up w/ & certainly no biblical backing to much of what was ultimately decided upon, then all I can do is wish you the best of luck & hope that some day you’ll find there’s a better way & a SURE answer.
I understand why C.C. & a couple others fight. They’re akin to the Zoramites or the Nephite disenters, so I understand where they’re coming from & what motivates them. For the rest of you, perhaps a sincere look for the truth rather than a win at all costs regardless of truth approach might be worth exploring. Are the “Mormons” right? Maybe, maybe not. The only one you can completely count on, who has all truth, is the Lord. Ask sincerely through prayer, & ye shall indeed receive! The bible says so & I believe the bible to be the word of God.
...part
Go read #1,181 again.
Well said.
If I want to know if something one of my fellow Christians has said is true I may also pray about it and inquire of God as to the truth of that thing.
Mark 4: 11 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
I think we actually agree on something. That is why I do not understand why I have to follow someone else's belief system or receive their blessing in order to be called a Christian.
Laugh of the day!
I do not understand why I have to get knocked up in order to be called Pregnant.
LOL!
It would be refreshing for once to get an answer instead of a dodge. No matter, it just illustrates for everyone else how vapid your positions are.
By the way, when Mormons get baptized (by dunking), the Priesthood Holder says, “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost” and down you go and there are two Priesthood holders who observe to make sure that you are completely covered. If not, you gotta get re-dunked.
Ok, Enosh. Then tell me what belief of yours I need to subscribe to in order to be called a Christian.
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