There are a few things maybe you can clarify for me Elsie, or maybe one of the others here. There has been a wonderful debate here on this thread about a host of issues. There have been many great points made. The question is this, how do you know what you claim is truth?
You bring up scriptures to make your case only to have other scriptures brought up by others that refute your case. Which side is correct? You, b/c you say so? B/C others say so? You claim to know the will of the Lord, but so did the Pharisees, so do the Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, Lutherans, etc.... So, who’s right? How can you tell?
The best way I know of is to simply ask the author of all this, the Lord. He has repeatedly asked us through the scriptures to do just that. “Ask & ye shall recieve”, “Knock & it shall be opened to you”. Nowhere in the scriptures does the Lord renounce his admonition for us to call upon him for answers. He never has indicated that it was time for us to go it alone, the heavens were closed, not to bother him anymore b/c we had all we needed. Now man has said that but not the Lord! The Nicean creed upon wich you pin many of your beliefs, was brought about by a bunch of men who argued for days & came up w/ what they believed was truth. The creed was not however a unanimous decision. They never claimed to have direct revelation form the Lord as the prophets of old had received.
In fact one of the troubling points for you SHOULD be that much of what is found in the Nicean creed is NOWHERE to be found in the bible! So, these guys claimed no revelation, didn’t all agree, & completely relied upon their own intellect to come up w/ something that has become a TRADITION for centuries. Is that really the foundation of your belief? Relying on them? Why not ask the Lord as he’s asked us to do?
Seems rather simple, but is one of the most powerful messages of the LDS faith. Why fight that? Now if you tell me that you’ve taken the issue before the Lord as he instructed us to do, & you received an answer from him that your faith is the way, I can respect that. But if you’re just relying on what your vast intellect tells you or what a bunch of men came up w/ centuries ago who openly claimed NO divinity to what they came up w/ & certainly no biblical backing to much of what was ultimately decided upon, then all I can do is wish you the best of luck & hope that some day you’ll find there’s a better way & a SURE answer.
I understand why C.C. & a couple others fight. They’re akin to the Zoramites or the Nephite disenters, so I understand where they’re coming from & what motivates them. For the rest of you, perhaps a sincere look for the truth rather than a win at all costs regardless of truth approach might be worth exploring. Are the “Mormons” right? Maybe, maybe not. The only one you can completely count on, who has all truth, is the Lord. Ask sincerely through prayer, & ye shall indeed receive! The bible says so & I believe the bible to be the word of God.
You forgot to ping me when you ascribed motive to me. If I were the Religion Moderator, I would reprimand you, but I’m not.
The specific instructions of the Religious section say you are not to ascribe motive to another poster and your statement clearly does:
“I understand why C.C. & a couple others fight. They’re akin to the Zoramites or the Nephite disenters, so I understand where they’re coming from & what motivates them.”
Now the LDS members claim that WE 'tell them what they believe' and they do have a point; but here you've said that MANY 'believe' in some creed.
This is not true. Any 'creed' is merely a boiled down summary of the 'important' ideas of Christianity, that various groups of folks who are trusting Christ for their salvation, hold in common as the basics.
No more - no less. (Kinda like your 13 Articles of Faith)
As to 'truth'; we ALL want that.
When JS started out, it seems he was searching for TRUTH.
When Paul was evangelizing, he came across some folks who wanted TRUTH.
As you can see from the Scripture, Paul used the EXISTING documents from the Jewish religion: the Old Testement, to backup the claims of Jesus.
NIV Acts 17:16-34
16. While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.
17. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
18. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
19. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
20. You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean."
21. (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22. Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious.
23. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.
24. "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.
25. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
26. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
27. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
28. `For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, `We are his offspring.'
29. "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and skill.
30. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
31. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."
32. When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject."
33. At that, Paul left the Council.
34. A few men became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.
22. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom...
So when someone comes along and says things that do NOT line up with existing Scripture, then produces 'evidence' to back up his claims, and then, rewrites the existing time-tested Scriptures to further reinforce his claims, it's no WONDER that many folks will not believe what is claimed by this new fellow.